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Funding Commonwealth: A Student Perspective

This poker game took a very sudden, strange turn when Phil remembered he was broke and in college.

Yesterday our own Matt Jones had a conversation with Senator David Williams about the issues surrounding the renovation of Commonwealth Stadium, which likely all of us have listened to, read, or otherwise learned a lot about.  It was an enlightening perspective, and Matt was able to get a lot of heretofore unknown information.

Particularly noteworthy to students, though, were a couple of notes on exactly why the

In the last budget, a Commonwealth Stadium renovation was included, but was tied to academic projects without dedicated revenue. Williams was clear that he would not support such a request.

The reality is that UK likes to bundle athletic projects (which have wide support) with academic renovations where dedicated revenue isn’t as clear.

Many in the commonwealth may embrace the idea of detaching the funding for stadium renovations from academic initiatives without directed revenue.  The academic projects clearly hinder the progress of the athletic endeavors, which would probably get passed fairly quickly.  So why lump them together?  Shouldn’t the benefit of a lot outweigh hardship to a few?

As a UK grad student, I would say no.  I filled out my FAFSA earlier this year, and almost cried.  It sucks.  I’m looking at a very real possibility of six-figure student loan debt when I graduate, and I’m not alone in that by a longshot.  That makes former-chairman Jim Stuckert’s claim that he “[doesn’t] see any super burden on individuals” downright laughable.  I also recently spoke to a dean at my college regarding an academic program that they’ve had for the last two years, and was informed that the aid they’ve given to students in the past simply is no longer allowable.  In a very real way, the students at the University are absolutely feeling a crunch.

Just as recently as the 8th, the Herald-Leader reported on some of the specifics for the academic finances, in light of an approved tuition increase.

The University of Kentucky Board of Trustees approved a 6 percent tuition increase for the upcoming academic year on Tuesday, bringing the total cost of tuition, fees and housing for in-state undergraduates to $16,518 a year.

In the past 10 years, UK tuition has increased 147 percent.

UK has increased its scholarships from 18 percent of all student aid received by students in 2006 to 33 percent in 2011. That’s compared to a downturn in state aid: In 2006, state financial aid made up 41 percent of aid to UK students; now it’s down to 27 percent.

By attaching the athletic proposals to the academic issues, the decision-makers at UK are attempting to provide an engine to propel the needs of the students to the forefront of the consideration.  Or, at least, make sure they don’t get left at the gate.  Will it work?  Maybe.  But it’s at least an attempt to make sure that scholarships are available for students, to help them buy books, afford housing, or even study abroad (or two).

Who’s to say what the right call here is?  Maybe allowing stadium renovations will increase the overall revenue for the University, making tuition actually more affordable.  It seems like a ridiculously circuitous scenario, but it’s possible, right?  Or, the renovations could be just that: “another coat of paint on this lonesome old town,” as Tom Waits would say.  Regardless, it’s only fair to look at both sides.  If President Capilouto agrees to detach the Stadium funding from the less-popular academic endeavors, the lack of that “engine” could result in even more cost to students.  Those currently enrolled, or hoping to enroll, at the University may be the ones who end up paying the price.

If that’s the case, is it worth it?

Article written by Corey Nichols

98 Comments for Funding Commonwealth: A Student Perspective

  1. JayCee
    9:07 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    mortgage payment.

    Welcome to the real world, Corey. Get yourself a helmet.

  2. Dickie Z
    9:07 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    You’re a grad student at UK? Based on your writing, I would’ve guessed middle school. Corey Nichols SUCKS!

  3. JayCee
    9:08 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    sorry, that was supposed to read: Our combined student loan payments are greater than our mortgage.

  4. TAXman
    9:09 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    2. actually you can tell, at least through the grammar aspect of his writing, that it is very sound. I’m not going to comment on the content because that’s for individuals to decide if they care about it or not, but he’s probably the only person on this website that shows any level of intelligence through grammar and vocabulary.

  5. Jayz
    9:11 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    lazy, disjointed blurb.

  6. Jayz
    9:14 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    Academic funding is changing. Across the country, the percent of state funding has dropped over the last decade. That is nothing new.

    Yet, at the same time, schools across the country are upgrading their stadiums. How can that be, Corey? The answer to this may require more than a 2-minute google search.

  7. CartB4Horse
    9:15 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    Corey . . . you are right on for once. It seems to me there are plenty of seats available for every football game. In fact, I gave up my seats this year because the product on the field was not worth the $120/seat (including K-Fund). I love a good SEC football game but there is a breaking point. Perhaps if UK put a better product on the field, the cost would be justified, the stadium would overflow each week, and private money would become more abundant to fund a stadium expansion. It hardly seems warranted at this time. For those that will argue that a better stadium will improve the product, look at public schools. All the money in the world isn’t going to make kids smarter – only good teachers. David Williams is right not to blindly fund a stadium project but maybe for the wrong reason – story really didn’t say. There are many, many more important things in Lexington and Kentucky to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on than a few extra seats and more luxury at Vanderbilt Basketball Coach stadium (smh)

  8. Four2
    9:17 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    Who on the KSR Team decided that Corey would be the one offering op-eds?

    Find them. Then fire them.

  9. TAXman
    9:19 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    same person, im guessing, that decided that BTI would offer up statistical analysis of everything possible. He must’ve realized, based on the vitriol towards BTI, that that wasn’t what the people wanted. I guess they decided Op-Ed pieces would be the way to go. Can’t please anyone i guess.

  10. Dumbledore
    9:20 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    Corey, Rashawn and Ms. Tyler are the best writers for KSR. I want to gouge out my eyes every time Tomlin contributes.

    Beisner was the master, but then they went and nixed him from regular web content.

  11. Smyrna_Cat
    9:21 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    7 … we have poor facilities. We have a poor product on the field. Neither have anything to do what Corey seems to propose which is the continued bundling of projects.

  12. HerpDerp
    9:22 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    I just don’t understand how (assumably) grown men or women could come to this comment section and bash a young writer. If you disagree that’s fine, let your opinion be known…that’s the point of a comment section. But to throw out petty and childish insults? Stop hiding behind your computer.

    Grow up, get a life.

    Nice article Corey.

  13. dd
    9:23 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    So detach the football stadium and leave the new Rupp attached. Basketball is powerful enough to get done even attached, and by detaching the football stadium we actually get something done. It’s called compromise.

  14. Enighbert
    9:24 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    As foreign ad it may be to some, it is refreshing to see that Senator Williams does not want to approve funding that cannot show someway of payment of debt, which seems to be polar opposite of the govenor

  15. Charybdis
    9:25 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    The bottom line is, are we going to be in the SEC or not? If we are, we have to act like it and keep up with the Joneses. Otherwise lets just go to a lesser, chump league and give up all that extra revenue…

  16. Smyrna_Cat
    9:26 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    9 … I like op-ed pieces. But there is a reason that newspapers used to have their seasoned sports writer do them rather than grad students who have no experience and an amazingly small base of knowledge.

    As for this blurb … it is poorly done. Corey’s “cause and effect” are wrong. Tuition raises and lack of funding for academic programs is a universal problem, and has little to do with upgrading a stadium.

  17. Charybdis
    9:32 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    The fact that a football stadium project would be profitable for the University is reason alone for it to be judged independent of any other factors. Attaching it to these academic projects is like saying that Apple stock is profitable, but you can only buy it if you also take equal amounts of GM stock at the same time. It’s simply not right to artificially tie together two things that are not connected.

  18. Jayz
    9:34 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    12 must be Corey in discuss.

    The blurb is shoddy. UK students will have issues with tuition whether the stadium is improved or not.

  19. Ready 5
    9:36 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    Corey didn’t write this. It is far too thought provoking. What the hell did you guys do with Corey? Whoever wrote it is spot on.

  20. Al's IndiCats
    9:36 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    CorEy, the price of a quality education has soared at every state University in the nation, not just UK. Try private institutions and see where those costs will get you. Our son graduated at Rose Hulman 8 years ago with state and federal help he still has well over a 6 figure student loan to pay off.
    A good friend of the family opened up a practice of his own as a ophthalmologist a few years ago. He’s in his late 30’s and telling me on top of all the costs of opening his business, he’ll still be paying his student loans off 3 years after he’s supposed to retires.
    But what the heck, the earth is going to end in December so let’s all just have a big party and max out all our charge cards.

  21. Law School
    9:36 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    Corey, you’ve lost a lot of credibility simply by enrolling in law school post-2008 legal market crash. You’re obviously do not have strong research ability, or lack the reasoning to apply the results of that research to the facts presented. That aside, your op-ed piece is incredibly misinformed. Tuition increases have nothing to do with athletic improvements. Tuition has increased despite a virtually zero debt Athletic Department. Tuition increased because state funding has declined. The AD has a dedicated revenue stream to service its own debt and does not need general fund dollars. The only obstacle is being able to incur its own debt, rather than having it tied to general university requests.

  22. JackB
    9:38 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    Telling me tuition has increased 147 in 10 years is meaningless. How much has it risen in real dollars (you know, after adjusting for the inflation of everything else over the last 10 years)? I suppose I could look it up, but Corey is the one giving us the argument.

    UK’s in state tuition is still a bargain by any measure. I paid less in tuition for 3 years of grad school at UK than one year at my undergraduate school. Cost of living was higher – but tuition was much much cheaper.

  23. It's obvious
    9:39 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    I agree with you Jayz.

    #12 is clearly Corey backing his own argument under the guise of an “anonymous” poster.
    Come off it bro! This dude is garbage…

  24. That's Live Action!!
    9:39 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    17 – A football stadium project would be profitable?? Did you see the attendance last year?? Oh wait, a renovated stadium would make us a great football team and we’d sell out every game….riiight.

    It’s a joke that anyone (including KSR) is even trying to push these projects (CWS and Rupp) in the current financial environment for the university, city, and state. I understand sports are important to some folks, but they are not THAT important considering what’s at stake. Have you kept up at all with the YUM center catastrophe and what’s coming down the road for that? Ridiculous.

  25. Roland
    9:42 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    Bad choice for a pic on this post. Guy looks like he doesn’t have money for a beer run.

  26. JayCee
    9:43 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    Wait, Corey. You’re in Law School?

    Dude. Sorry about your luck. You’d be miles ahead by simply learning to weld and I’m not even kidding in the slightest.

  27. T.J.
    9:43 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    I think what upsets a lot of the people on the comments section, is that Corey’s posts come across as so matter of fact, when in all actuality, they are just opinions. And not very thought out opinions at that.

  28. Blame it on UofL
    9:45 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    When UofL started to receive state funding they drastically cut into the funding that UK and all other state schools received. The expenses of UK have not increased so that missing revenue had to come from private donors and students. Cap is simply trying to get some of the funding back from the state that was lost when it went to U of L.

  29. Cat_Fan
    9:47 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    Guys it is not that hard to figure out why UK struggles in the SEC in football. Yea a stadium renovation might help with 1 or 2 recruits, but not in most cases. If I am an 18 year old kid looking at schools and I go to Fla in March about the time spring ball starts and the sun is shining and its 70 degrees everybody wearing shorts and sun dresses. Then I go to UK in March with possibly snow on the ground, and every one bundled up, where am I going to school? That is not a hard decision, so unless you make it a dome I don’t believe stadium renovations will fix the problem, I think a big name coach would however fix the problem. Nothing against Joker, he should have went to a few big schools and made a national name for himself then came back to UK. Recruiting will always be tough in the SEC in football for UK, being one of the northern most universities in the conference.

  30. davidt
    9:48 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    Corey’s argument is poorly constructed. Is there ANY support for the idea that not bundling athletic projects as ANY impact on tuition?


    Does every school in the nation have tuition raises and funding problems?


    Corey, you may as well say that the cost of a White Castle hamburger is the cause of your tuition raise.

  31. Crvtbyb
    9:49 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    Federal loans and the absence of lending standards are the reason tuition has skyrocketted across the country. There is no reason for a university to scrutinize it’s budget and prioritize spending. The money will always be there because anyone can get it, even if their degree in Women’s Studies and Multiculuralism gives them zero chance of paying back the debt. Doesn’t matter to the school. It’s welfare that you have to pay back and are not the primary beneficiary. It’s a terrible terrible deal for students and taxpayers, but great for ivory tower types.

  32. davidt
    9:50 am May 17, 2012 Permalink


    Basically, they are just ramblings. It is like when you are a half page short on an assignment, and have to fill it up with nonsense in order to meet the page requriements.

    Corey is filler. Rambling filler.

  33. SeoulCat
    9:50 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    #4, You’re right.
    #2, You’re wrong; Corey’s content may be debatable, but what isn’t up for debate is the fact that, from the standpoint of grammar and style of prose, Corey is probably the best writer that KSR has.

  34. symphonist41169
    9:53 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    4- Actually the syntax & grammar aren’t indicative of a grad student. “Yesterday our own Matt Jones had a conversation with Senator David Williams about the issues surrounding the renovation of Commonwealth Stadium, which likely all of us have listened to, read, or otherwise learned a lot about.”

    Turrible post, & seem to worsen daily.

  35. davidtom
    9:53 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    Horrible photo. That guy isn’t worried about stadium improvements or tuition. He wants beer. Or a burger. Or both.

  36. wait what?
    9:55 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    What? An actual attempt at an article this morning? It still wasn’t very good, but at least he tried. I guess there was no mundane news about u of l or iu to brag about. I hate u Corey & I hope magic johnson rapes u

  37. ky_99
    9:56 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    It seems to me this is the right call. Using athletic projects as a smokescreen to get money is ridiculous. Also for all of the people saying we have more important things to spend money on than sports name ONE. A football game brings in over 70,000 (sold out) people to a close proximity to down town. In turn money is spent at stores, local food joints, clothing/memorabilia stores etc. increasing revenue and adding to the overall economy. When businesses thrive more companies will bring their stores, or restaraunts etc to the city. Believe it or not good sports team CAN and DO help bring ALOT of money to the city.

  38. davidt
    9:56 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    33 … so wrong.

    I have never seen so many commas used in my life. Or as Corey would say …

    I have, never, seen so many commas, used, in my life.

  39. Cherith Cutestory
    9:58 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    I worked my way through college and ended up with no debt and a graduates degree. If you want to go to college then you do so with an understanding it is an investment. If it is too costly and not worth the investment don’t do it. But the real problem is people don’t want it enough to work for it. Instead they just want to complain and say that it is hard. I couldn’t afford to not work and go to school…suck it up. Also UK football will always be a struggle bus ride for the fans.

  40. Shane
    9:59 am May 17, 2012 Permalink


  41. Roland
    9:59 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    The masses complaining about the post should just cancel their subscription to this site and/or provide a link to site with a well written story.

  42. Hunter1249
    10:00 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    Spot on Corey. With a college / higher Ed bubble that has been created, if it burst and it will at some point this revenues for the collegeswillbe insanely harder to come by.

  43. Devastation INC
    10:03 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    How do you think they pay for all the pensions and handouts. Somebody has to pay for it.

  44. Smyrna_Cat
    10:04 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    42 … I take it you haven’t made it to college yet?

  45. Bob Day
    10:07 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    I agree with #17. The business of college these days largely has to be treated as though the college were a business in where state schools are concerned. This is true with regard to virtually all public institutions as well as non-profits and not-for-profits. In this case, academics and sports function as separate revenue streams in ways little different from product or service lines. As such, they should be separated from one another for all purposes of accounting, analysis, problem-solving and planning. Ultimately, it will be the only way financial issues in both areas will see possible resolution.

  46. Bubba Earl
    10:08 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    I laughed at the comment made by Senator Williams yesterday that he was always working to keep college costs down when in fact it has always seemed to increase 6% every year. I did not realize the increase has shown 147% in the last 10 years. The increase is showing almost a seven and a half increase per semester! I fee for tyhe young students and their families for the outrageous cost of receiving a probable worthless degree.

  47. jaws2
    10:11 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    #31 FINALLY the voice of reason; well done my friend! We’ve made money so easy to get for education that practically anyone can get it. Just like everything else the government gets involved with, this is screwed up as well. We’ve convinced the sheeple that you’ll get nowhere in this world without that degree, so we’ll make it easy to get cash to fund it. What happened to the idea of people working while going to school?

    We’ve also devalued the education with this philosophy. We’ve convinced an entire generation that they HAVE to get this degree, lowered the value by offering meaningless degrees that do not apply anywhere in the real world, and filled universities with kids that have no business being there. Kids graduate and have no job possibilities that will ever allow them to reduce these loan balances because their degrees are in useless majors.

    Oh BTW, this has NOTHING to do with athletics.

  48. Dave in Kabul
    10:11 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    If the State Officials weren’t all as corrupt as Richie Farmer, State Tuition would be cheaper. Imagine the money saved if State Officials just did their jobs instead of siphoning off millions each year.

    Bunch of scum!

  49. East Kentucky Infidel
    10:16 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    It’s the human elements that are missing from the football program. Invest in a football coach, administrator, and players and all this other stuff will come about. Put a product on the field people will invest in instead of the gut wrenching drama we watch now. It is a commitment to championship football and it doesn’t come without a price. UK is football challenged, don’t expect this bunch to find the answers, they are the problem.

    #42 that bubble is long overdue to burst. Education is awash in money but short on results and accountability. Without reform there will never be enough money to waste.

  50. Fred in Franklin
    10:17 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    How about this; if you want to go to college, pay for it yourself. You ain’t my kid. I could care less if you rack up debt. How about you get a job, work 40 hours a week while going to college.

  51. Empire
    10:19 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    UK has amassed a far flung empire in each of the state’s 120 counties. It has “farms” primarily set up to study tobacco. It has a silly $$ engineering school in Paducah. It has an abundance of 4H and Ag agents in each county. UK has so much fat to render down it would be like butchering a whale.

  52. Charybdis
    10:22 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    As much as the team struggles at times, football still brings in more money to the university than even basketball. We are at the point that if we don’t do renovations soon, we are endangering that revenue stream. It’s not about “building it better so we’ll have a top ten team” (though that would be nice). It’s about renovating just to stay where we are and keep the revenue we currently enjoy!

  53. UK Junior
    10:28 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    This is the only time I’ve gone through the comments on this blog, and I have to say its pretty disappointing. I’m not the first to say it, but if the best thing you have to do in the morning is criticize a student writer’s opinion on an OPINION based sports blog, then you have a serious problem.

    Fact is, using Matt’s information about why the University wants to tie athletics and academics together, Corey produced a pretty well written, well thought out article about the STUDENT perspective on the issue. It’s an opinion I agree with (though I wouldn’t tear him apart on a comment section if I didn’t). Why do I agree? I don’t know any of the details from which Capiluto has made this call, but I know that they led him to believe the university’s academic funding success likelyhood is higher with the leverage of athletics. The university is really in an unacceptable state in regards to funding and facilities. The university with the best students, faculty, and mission in the state is the one providing students with some of the oldest buildings at and state university. Personally, I work daily in a 70 year old building that hinders everything from teaching to recruiting. And compared to other “flagship” universities around the country, UK is on a much lower level, not of academic excellence necessarily, but of what is provided to the students. To me, it’s much less embarrassing for the worst football team in the sec to work in a nice facility that doesn’t compare to the best football teams in the country we compete with weekly. And as someone who was at every single home football game this year, I can assure anyone who’s forgotten that we weren’t close to selling out for most of the season, and not because of the stadium. To justify the cost we’re talking about, that needs to change.

    Thanks to Corey for a great article expressing an opinion not everyone on this site wants to hear.

    10:30 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    37 . . .we have a 70k seat stadium . . . so if we build a different one it will make more money?

  55. katmandue2you
    10:31 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    #29- i hate to pick out a comment and try and bash it, but if we are going to simplify UK football success (or lack thereof) down to the weather not being nice enough here, then how do you account for the Boise States, the Oregons, the Wisconsins, etc etc….all of which have found football success in less than stellar weather environments. Just one more question. You ever put on a helment, shoulder pads, etc. and went out and practiced in August and September in the deep south? If I’m a recruit coming here in March (or whenever) and comparing the weather to the deep south, I’m saying “man this is gonna feel alot better than “Flarda” when I’m having to run gasers at the end of practice!!” When you’re in gear working hard on a football field, 95 degrees dont feel real damn good! Oh and if I’m not mistaken wasnt Joker’s previous two coaching jobs at Notre Dame and South Carolina? Just sayin…

  56. Sabban
    10:31 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    52 . . .spend the millions on Nick Saban and you would win in the Blue lot at a torn down Commonwealth stadium.

  57. Kentucky Gentleman
    10:31 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    “The academic projects clearly hinder the progress of the athletic endeavors…”

    I love that statement.

  58. Coal keeps your school going
    10:32 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    Is this the same student body complaining over the use of coal. Even though coal has built the university. The tax dollars from coal combined with the donation from coal operators has made the tuition affordable as it is.

  59. Smyrna_Cat
    10:34 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    Why does KSR edit out comments they don’t like? Serious question.

  60. Brad
    10:35 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    How much is UK paying its Professors, Adminitration, and staff? Have the education departments budgets increased? How many hours to Professors teach? Why do we always look at athletics when they generate Millions.

  61. Real UK Fan
    10:35 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    I tend to agree with some that renovating the stadium will not guarantee a great or even good product on the field. Just like in the classroom, students don’t learn unless they have an adequate teacher. On the football field it requires a good coach. Until we upgrade the coach there is no way we should consider spending a dime on the stadium.

  62. Logic
    10:37 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    Brad, in the case of my department, less than other comparable universities. And funding for education has been decreasing at a pretty alarming level.

  63. Coal your cash cow
    10:44 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    #62 Then why have you guys been protesting coal knowing it has greatly benefited the school. You can’t have it both ways. The students protest sports and coal but don’t care to spend the money they bring in

  64. sdafdsa
    10:51 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    UK has gone bowling 5 of the last 6 years. There’s way more negativity than a program with that record should have. The nature of the SEC these days is that even power programs like Georgia, Tennessee and South Carolina have had losing seasons in the last half decade. It’s an unforgiving conference, and we’re giving up on Joker too quickly.

  65. 3 fan
    10:53 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    50, you never went to college, much less a grad program. Many grad programs require you to NOT work the first year and restricted hours after that

    How bout UK cut about 30 completely worthless programs such as women’s studies, French lit, etc that will not get you a real world job. Cut those teachers free, downsize the number if students and streamline?

  66. Cogats
    10:54 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    This comment section sounds like a bunch of Fox republican talking points, bashing education, not knowing anything about what is important in this world. A lesson to most of you comment gods. Your opinion is not that important and before you rag on someone read the freaking article!!! Your comprehension is absolutely terrible

  67. SteveA.
    10:57 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    62. Has the funding actually been cut or has the cost of tuition gone up too fast? When I was at UK, half of my $4000 a year cost was paid for by grants. With increased student numbers as well as the huge rate increses it may only appear to be cut. Maybe? Plus by the time I graduated the cost doubled.

  68. NiceJobCorey
    11:03 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    Those bashing Corey are out of line, and this post is for you:

    First- all that Corey did here is unfold the arguments including consideration of the academic side. He even ends with a question. Many are reacting like this was a flamethrower- it wasnt.

    Second- The point of bundling is to leverage the popular athletic updates with less popular updates to academic facilities. If the university does not get this money for updating ACADEMIC facilities from the state- it has to get the money from somewhere else…WHAT IS THE OTHER SOURCE OF MONEY? (tuition!!) It would leave a better impression of your intelligence if you stopped with your fantasy that the athletic department is seperate from the University. Which leads me to:

    Third- The fact is, sadly, I think many on this site and many Kentucky fans, in general, have a disdain for academia and the University, while being totally devoted and delirous when the UNIVERSITY team wins. All those intellectuals, and Ivory (concrete at UK) Towers, and students- what does any of THAT have to do with the C-A-T-S, cats, cats cats? It is an ignorant position to take. Ahletics is not above, or apart from the University, instead it is only a small part of the University. The President of the University has to see that big picture.

  69. ky_99
    11:11 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    54- who said anything about building a new stadium? This WHOLE discussion is about renovations and upgrading the facility which will attract more student athletes and then produce better products on the field. WHICH then leadds me to my point of beginning to sell out the 70k+ seating drawing in larger crowds increases revenue and puts money into the city. Are you able to follow that.

  70. Little Britches
    11:11 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    You would think that since UK athletics is profitable that the administration would agree to let the stadium be built on it’s own merit without the academic programs being attached in order for it to be built. Then once it is built, allow the athletic department to recieve the revenues from ticket sales and the the academics to receive the money from concession sales. Or they could look at a combination of both. At the end of the day, both parties win and the fans get a new stadium.

  71. justafish2002
    11:11 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    Work harder in high school and you get a great scholarship. That means no student loans. Get a job while you’re studying and you’ll actually make money by being in college.

    There are plenty of revenue streams for college if you work hard and find them. Student loans are for people too lazy to seek them out

  72. BlueBallin'
    11:14 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    This argument is an unbelievable diversion from the basic core issues that’s put us in the basement of SEC football for the last few decades; and #29 is the only one I saw stay focused on them. The senior-class high-school talent pool in KY is too shallow in comparison to the more populated SEC states we compete against. The competition to get that talent is pretty furious, and we don’t have a solid-enough recent football history or the realistic recruiting pitch of competing for an conference title in these times. Renovations, new facilities…whatever. When we have a decent (JUST DECENT) football team, Commonwealth gets packed and that little area (for about 4 hours) becomes the state’s 3rd-largest city. Complaints are few, far-between, & mostly silent in the isolated years of decent football we’ve had. Our football mediocrity can only be lifted by a Head Coach equipped to do what great coaches do–get great talent from anywhere you can and coach the hell out of ’em. You have to have somebody who looks at juniors and seniors in high school and sees future NFL talent; not just roster-fillers to support the few high-skilled guys that decide to play here. Clearly, all these coaches are money-driven. Clearly, UK’s got plenty of it. It’s time to go all in. So I’ll say what no one else wants to –
    When we go 4-8 (5-7 at best) this year, time to move on from Joker, especially at a time when Tennessee football is down and we get someone who can really turn the tide in that rivalry (which would help regional recruiting). It will be time then to go pay $3 mill/yr to the best college football mind available….a broken, humiliated, hopefully humbled BOBBY PETRINO. He hates UK, we hate him…& it’s still just combustible enough to lift this program to a higher level. If he could get kids from anywhere in the country to go to Louisville or Fayetteville, AR…Lexington won’t be a problem. There is no greater offensive mind in the college game than his. He damn-near had Louisville competing for a national championship, a feat that still makes me puke a little, but impressive nonetheless at the one time the Big East was worthy of competing for the Title. Now Arkansas has a chance based on what he built. Give the guy a contract that protects the university from his d-bag tendencies, have Barnhardt & Bell put him on social lockdown, and let him do what he’s proven he can do…build elite football programs.

  73. ky_99
    11:15 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    68- Actually the athletic department is seperate from the university. The athletic department gives the University nearly a million dollars each year towards scholarships etc.

  74. BooCat
    11:19 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    Corey get a job you hippie! You suck!

  75. University_DOES_control Athletics
    11:19 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    73_ absolutely not true. The UK President and the Board could eliminate basketball tomorrow if they wanted. It is the Athletic DEPARTMENT of the University of Kentucky. The way the money flows and accounting varies across the university, but the money is not seperate but ALL of it is under the control of the University.

  76. ky_99
    11:24 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

  77. UK Junior
    11:28 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    69- plenty of people have, but I did not in my post. Might be good to read it more carefully before you comment. Just a thought.

  78. Duke sucks
    11:31 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    #75 Absolutly wrong the athletic dept. and athletic association are two different groups. The athletic Dept. is controlled by the school the Athletic association is controled entirely by its board. The facts are easy when you make them up.

  79. Billy Clyde
    11:36 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    anybody want to come play ball for me i have a few scholarships available

  80. ky_99
    11:37 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    Many people have but I did not and if you refernced my post then it doesn’t coincide.

  81. todd
    11:38 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    college isnt free for most people,its not atlectics job to make school cheaper for students, getting ready to pay for college for my daughter I understand this

  82. I Say
    11:46 am May 17, 2012 Permalink


  83. University_DOES_control Athletics
    11:50 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    76. your silly link was about budget amounts. I said in my post that the way the money moves around varies among departments across the university. The College of Agriculture has a budget too, can spend money how it wants, raises revenus through donations and fund raising, etc- but the President and Board of Trustees at UK can step in and do whatever they want with funds. Same is true for Athletics

    78. You, are the one who is wrong. UKAA throughout its existance ultimately reported to the board of trustees at UK and the president. UKAA traditionally has controlled its own budget and had responsibility for oversight, but they operate- ultimately- under the auspices of the Board of Trustees and are governed by the UK President. The UK President can fire Calipari (with board approval) right now if there was cause, etc.

    The funny thing is, # 78, the UKAA is being DISBANDED by the Board of Trustees! ha ha ha, nice on Socrates.

    Cry a blue river if you want, but Athletics is part of the University and fits under that governing umbrella.

    Here is another shocker for you dolts- the players are ACTUALLY students! If they dont do well in class that faculty member can fail them, then can cannot play! Bet you didnt know that, either. If they flunk a philosophy class, no more alley-oops to entertain you.

  84. Duke sucks
    11:58 am May 17, 2012 Permalink

    #83 You are a typaical mommies boy who spends all mom and dads money and think you know it all. We have tried to tell you the facts and you wont hear it. The university only pays Cal 100,000 a year. The athletic UKAA never disbanded they switch from a board of trustes to a board of directors. Now go spend some of mom and dads money and learn thr difference.

  85. December 22, 2012
    12:01 pm May 17, 2012 Permalink

    20 – Actually, scientists just found another Mayan calendar in a vault that has time going on for millions and millions of yrs. No worries, bro!

  86. University_DOES_control Athletics
    12:17 pm May 17, 2012 Permalink

    84. you amuse me, but you also essentially admit I am right. Which you should, because I am.

    I admitted from the start that the accounting is complicated, but who pays Cal what is irrelevant to my point- which is that Athletics is part of the university, and sits under the umbrella of authority wielded by the President and the Board of Trustees. That is simply true, and you cannot change this fact. The President and the Board could fire Cal tomorrow.

    The best part is that, there are 2 faculty representatives on the UK Board of Trustees! Two PhDs… so…sadly for you I presume…that means that faculty in Women’s Studies, and German, and Biology (OMG- BIOLOGY…yes biology), Physics, and Agriculture etc. have a voice in the decision making process associated with Athletics. Its perfectly true, and no amount of “The ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT MAKES $$ dollars every year” can save you from that truth!

  87. philly cat
    12:20 pm May 17, 2012 Permalink

    #84. you’re the dolt as you continue to ignore that the university could dissolve all athletics if it wanted to. and the amount of $$ athletics brings in is a fraction of the money the university gets from overhead on grants from the NIH and NSF. so, it is more important (even monetarily, not to mention the fact that this is a SCHOOL), to improve the academic facilities and pay professors competitive wages. academic facilities & wages = better profs = better research = more $$$.

    UAB is one of the largest recipients of NIH money in the country. Where did Eli come from? You think that is a coincidence?

    At Stanford (remember, private institution with huge tuition costs), the money comes from 1) interest on endowment, 2) overhead from research grants, …… 3) tuition (a distant third).

  88. HicksPickSix
    12:43 pm May 17, 2012 Permalink

    Corey, as one of your biggest critics, I’ve got to tip my hat to you today. It has only taken you a few months to write something coherent, researched, and mildly original.

  89. ky_99
    12:44 pm May 17, 2012 Permalink

    86- “UK Athletics records show the department has given back millions to the university while remaining one of only 14 self-supporting intercollegiate athletic departments in the country.”

  90. eloy
    12:51 pm May 17, 2012 Permalink

    UK has a football stadium?!

  91. Gocats
    1:08 pm May 17, 2012 Permalink

    89.) ignorance and cobfidence is the worst combo. The collegiate program is self supporting financially, think of it as a subsidiary to a parent company. It does not rely on the university to fund it with grants and tuition, but that in no way does not mean it isnt under the authority of the board of trustees. Your utter lack of comprehension prooves why we need college educated people in this country

  92. Gocats
    1:12 pm May 17, 2012 Permalink

    Oh and bazinga!

  93. Coals your cash cow
    2:06 pm May 17, 2012 Permalink

    #91 You need to go back and read the comments. No one has said that the athletics aren’t part of the school. You have to be a student to play athletics and all coaches are employees of the school we get that. But what we are trying to tell you is the athletic department is totally self funded. The AD takes no money away from the education of any students or makes tuition one dime hiigher. Infact it gives funding to the education side as well as bringing exposer to the School as a whole. I don’t think we should grow the AD at the cost of the students but don’t kid yourself into thinking the students pay for any of the sports

  94. ky_99
    2:12 pm May 17, 2012 Permalink

    spell check- confidence, proves.

    If it is under direct authority of the board how did President Todd give Mitch a raise and extension without consulting them or their approval?

  95. ky_99
    2:12 pm May 17, 2012 Permalink

    93) thank you!

  96. get the point
    2:18 pm May 17, 2012 Permalink

    I think the meaning behind the post is getting lost a little bit, or I haven’t really found a comment on here that I’ve seen. 72 came close till he came up with the absurd idea of getting Bobby Petrino, so I then had to discredit everything he wrote prior to it.
    The ultimate message behind this post, I think, is if it is a good practice of the university to group their projects in the same budget request as the athletics department and not group what money is going to what. What this in turn tries to accomplish is for everyone to see the ‘big ticket item’ which is the stadium renovation, and not pay as much attention to the other items. From my edumakated days in school, this practice is a pretty common act in government as well. Congressmen and senators sometimes add less important and unrelated items to a bill that will benefit their region or state, to a more important and well known bill that they are confident will pass with little or no problem. They try to use the slight of hand trick to get something the want by hanging on the shirt tails of something else. Is this wrong? Well, if it causes the entire bill to fail due to someone noticing it and determining that the big ticket item isn’t important enough to pass, then yes it is.
    The president is trying to get items through that they believe are very important to the school that they probably do not believe will pass on their own merits. Now what the president has to do is determine if the potential increase in revenues to the athletic department is worth changing their direction in trying to receive the other funds. I believe that if the athletic department is willing to increase the amount of yearly money that it pays to the school for additional scholarships, then yes, it is worth it since the university as a whole will benefit from it. But at this point, until the football program starts to peak the interests of fans enough for the fans to start a buzz for renovations, then its not. If the athletic department wants the university to give in and let them go on their own merit, then they should give a little back to the university.

  97. philly cat
    2:19 pm May 17, 2012 Permalink

    94) point still is: President Todd ran the school, and had authority over the athletic dept. so does Eli.

  98. Coal is your cash cow
    2:21 pm May 17, 2012 Permalink

    #91 further more UK doesn’t belong to the students. It belongs to the Tax Paying citizens of Kentucky to educate and Advance our state as a whole. So you can drop all the ownership spew.