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BTI’s Rants and Ramblings: Jersey Rafters Week, Part III: Keith Bogans and Chuck Hayes

All this week I am discussing a topic that is a popular one on this site and amongst UK fans: jersey retirement.  UK has not retired the jersey of a player that has played at the school since 1993 (Mashburn).  But, in the last 20 years, certainly there have been quite a few great players to come through Lexington, and I feel there are FIVE that have earned a jersey retirement.  I have already hit on the 2 most obvious, Tony Delk and Tayshaun Prince.  But, as a part of this post, I also argue against 1 player day, not to minimalize that player’s career, but to highlight that this achievement is truly for the best of the best careers, and some guys just don’t stack up with the legends.  Already, I have argued against Wayne Turner and Rex Chapman.  Here is the schedule for the rest of the week and the posts from Monday and Tuesday:

MONDAY: Tony Delk (IN) and Wayne Turner (OUT)
TUESDAY: Tayshaun Prince (IN) and Rex Chapman (OUT)
THURSDAY: Rajon Rondo and Patrick Patterson
FRIDAY: John Wall and Anthony Davis

Now, before we get into today’s 2 players, I feel like I should clarify what I consider important to getting your jersey retired.  My criteria are fairly simple:

-I think individual stats and accolades are significantly more important than team success.  It doesn’t mean that winning a title doesn’t help some, but if you were an average player on a title team, I don’t think it boosts you into legend status.  I call this the Cameron Mills argument.

-A player’s “likeability” has no sway for me.  Rajon Rondo was not well-liked while at UK, but belongs up there more than Ramel Bradley does.

-NBA success has NO EFFECT whatsoever.  If had an effect, then we would have to also take out the NBA busts.  I don’t think Ron Mercer should be damaged by what he did after UK.

With that said, let’s look at the 2 players for today: KEITH BOGANS AND CHUCK HAYES

LET HIM IN (Keith Bogans)

The Individual Numbers
Points: 1,923 (4th all-time)
Assists: 314 (14th all-time)
Steals: 155 (12th all-time)
Field Goals: 671 (7th all-time)
3-pointers: 254 (2nd all-time)

The Team Numbers
SEC Champions: 3 (2000, 2001, 2003)
SEC Tournament Champions: 2 (2001, 2003)

Awards
3rd team All-American: 1 (2003)
SEC Player of the Year: 1 (2003)
All-SEC 1st team: 1 (2003)
All-SEC 2nd team: 1 (2001)
SEC Tournament MVP: 1 (2003)

Bogans is one of those guys, like Prince, who doesn’t have the team success that we’ve come accustomed to for legends at Kentucky.  But his individual numbers are far too good to leave him out.  He is the 4th leading scorer in school history, and his junior year was a DISASTER.  There are 33 players who have scored less points than Bogans and are in the rafters.  And of those 33, 26 of them did not win a title at UK.  So, let’s not act like everybody has a title in the rafters.  Bogans senior year might be one of the best individual seasons at UK in the shot clock era.  And his injury in the 2003 tournament ruined UK’s chances at a Final Four.  So you know his impact.  To me, Bogans is a slam dunk.

KEEP HIM OUT (Chuck Hayes)

The Individual Numbers
Points: 1,211 (40th all-time)
Rebounds: 910 (7th all-time)
Assists: 290 (17th all-time)
Steals: 169 (8th all-time)
Blocks: 128 (13th all-time)

The Team Numbers
SEC Champions: 2 (2003 and 2005)
SEC Tournament Champions: 2 (2003 and 2004)

Awards
All-SEC 1st team: 1 (2005)
All-SEC 2nd team: 1 (2004)
SEC Defensive Player of the Year: 1 (2005)

I paired up Bogans and Hayes on purpose because I think their careers are a great example of somebody I think should be in the rafters and somebody that I vote no.  Let me first say that I think there are FIVE players that should have their jersey’s retired, but if you asked who my first guy on the cut line is, it would be Chuck Hayes.  He played significant minutes all 4 years, and was a team leader his last 2 years.  He did a lot of things well, and rebounded at a great level.  But he never was higher than 3rd on the team in scoring.  Bogans was an All-American in his senior season, something Hayes never was.  Even though team success is not a huge factor for me, Bogans won 1 more SEC title than Hayes, and each had the same NCAA Tournament success.  That thin line between the career of Bogans and the career of Hayes is where I draw the line for the jersey retirement honor.

Hayes is also one of the rare examples of where I use my gut more than the numbers.  I remember watching Hayes and loving his effort.  One of my 10 favorite players of all-time.  Probably got more out of his talent than anybody.  But I also don’t think he was as impactful a player night in and night out as Prince and Bogans were.  Hayes was limited on the offensive end much of his career, as seen by the fact he only ranks 40th in all-time points despite 4 years of good minutes.

If they put Chuck Hayes in the rafters, I would honestly have no problem with that.  I consider the honor to be an ELITE honor that only a couple players a decade might earn.  But Hayes is very, very close in my book.  I would just have to vote no.  And comparing to Keith Bogans is a good reason why.

Follow me on twitter at @BryantheIntern or @mysports790.  And if you would like a non-UK sports blog to mess around with each day, I would highly recommend The Sports Pit.

Article written by Bryan the Intern

37 Comments for BTI’s Rants and Ramblings: Jersey Rafters Week, Part III: Keith Bogans and Chuck Hayes



  1. rabble rabble rabble
    9:09 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    Meh, team success should play into consideration. I’m willing to cave on Bogans because I believe that if he never turned his ankle there wouldn’t be an arguement. But as much as I love Prince and Hayes, neither deserve a retired jersey. They just don’t.



  2. asdf
    9:14 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    You can’t judge Hayes strictly on numbers. Remember the “all he does is win” slogan? That was accurate. He was the all-time NCAA king of intangibles, which is why he’s still playing in the NBA even though he doesn’t have the natural talent to be there.



  3. A-YO
    9:19 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    If you readin this at work let me get an AYOOO!!!!



  4. Austin
    9:21 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    You’re crazy to think that Chuck Hayes doesn’t deserve to have his jersey retired. Having your jersey retired is the ultimate thank you from your alma mater and it isnt just about personal accolades you accumulated while being there. It is about how much your school and fan base truly appreciated you and admired you while playing. Ask any Kentucky fan who was more than 10 years old at the time Chuck was wearing blue and white who their all-time top 5 favorite players are and Chuck makes the list everytime somewhere. Not retiring Chuck’s jersey would be a shame, he personifies every aspect of a player you truly want on and off the court. Chuck was a winner, Chuck was admired, Chuck is a beast.



  5. Austin
    9:21 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    AYOOO!!!



  6. JackB
    9:24 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    If all Hayes did was win, then all he won was Elite 8’s. Which is good but not “put me in the rafters good” unless there are also great numbers to go with it. Bogans has great numbers. He is #4 – NUMBER 4 – in all-time points. That is “put me in the rafters good numbers.”

    You have to draw the line somewhere – I think you draw it with Hayes below the line and Bogans above it.

    Loved Hayes and Daniels teams and their passing game. My favorite Tubby teams.



  7. Franklin J
    9:25 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    AYOOO!!!



  8. Get Real
    9:25 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    If anyone deserves to be in the rafters it’s Chuck. The man did nothing but win and gave his all every night. Definitely one of my top five favorites players at UK all-time. He may not have the numbers but he was a UK guy, it wasn’t just a pit stop for him. He wore the UK Blue with pride and it showed on his Senior Night. If you don’t think Chuck should be in the rafters then I don’t believe you watched much Kentucky basketball during the Tubby years, you were probably one of the guys jumping ship to root for Louisville because you were a “Pitino Fan.”



  9. Blue in Bama
    9:27 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    Both are deserving but if forced to pick I would go with Bogans. And that’s hard because Chuck meant so much to the program. But Bogan’s is # 4 all time and that tips the scales. Chuck will forever be endured much like Rex but others should go before him.



  10. Bozak
    9:29 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    NIT two of the last five years



  11. GA Hill
    9:31 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    This series is incredible…don’t retire Wayne Turner or Chuck Hayes’ jerseys. Really?

    Until that mouth-breather Tyler Hansborough came along, Wayne Turner won more games than ANY PLAYER IN NCAA HISTORY. He played in 3 straight national title games. He may not have the eye-popping statistics, but he is one of the greatest point guards in college basketball history–let alone Kentucky history.

    And Austin is right; if you’re above a certain age, you’d understand what Chuck meant to this fanbase and how integral he was to the success of those teams. Tom Izzo said something along the lines of “I wish I had 5 Chuck Hayes.” He’s my favorite Kentucky player of all time because of how he played the game. I’m a big stats guy when it comes to these types of arguments, but Chuck truly is one of those guys that you had to see to understand how important he was to his team and this program.



  12. Bozaks Ballsack
    9:32 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    3 Titles in ~20 years > 1 title in ~30



  13. Notthistime
    9:33 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    #3…”A-YO”

    #2…Good post

    Chuck Hayes meant more to the university of Kentucky basketball program than anyone during the Tubby Smith era, yes even more than Prince. take Hayes away from the team those four years and I’d be willing to bet they miss the tournament at least once. It was Hayes that held the team together his senior year and almost single handedly and gave them a chance to make the final four (though thanks to Michigan St. they did not).

    Hayes has a win percentage of .853 in his 4 years at UK, which if I remember correctly might be the best for a four year player in the history of college basketball

    He also tied Alex Groza for the most consecutive starts in UK history with 110

    watching the games, and knowing what he meant to the team during his stay at UK, there’s not another player to come through the program that I would agrue deserves to be up there more than Hayes.



  14. The Rock
    9:34 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    The Rock says, although Brian the Intern sucks more than a baby cow, he agrees with this one. The Rock says if Chuck Hayes would have been taller, he would of been on of the greatest UK players ever, but that isn’t so. The Rock says he likes Chuck Hayes, but his numbers fall just short. IF YOU SMEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLL WHAT THE ROCK IS………….COOKING!!!!



  15. Notthistime
    9:35 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    ^ Sorry I mean’t since the year 2000…



  16. Gimme Dat
    9:39 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    A-Yooooo



  17. tyson
    9:39 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    Chuck was everything you would ever want a UK player to be. He gave 100% effort every time his feet (don’t make him eat ’em Archie) touched the floor (in practice too) and LOVED being a Wildcat. He should be in the rafters. One of the most, if not THE most beloved player during the Tubby era.



  18. Mike23
    9:43 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    Chuck raped a girl. Not everything you would ever want a UK player to be FYI. BTI still sucks



  19. KBF
    9:43 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    Chuck should be in the rafters for his game winning shot against LSU in the SEC Tournament alone. I had third row seats, center court for the championship game as I sweated out the overtime semi- finals game and Chuck saved the day. We lost to Florida in the championship but I was just grateful not to be leaving Atlanta a day early. Thanks Chuck!



  20. Al/in/Indy
    9:44 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    Chuck always left everything on the floor when he played for the Cats. His jersey should be there.
    10, in the not too distant future, uvels bubble is going to pop. It’s not a matter of “if” it’s a matter of WHEN!!!!!!!
    Ca ca will drop on that ghetto school like a ton of bricks.



  21. BPM
    9:48 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    I was over 10 when he played and Chuck Hayes is not one of my top 5 UK players of all time. The man played his heart out for UK and for that he will always have my respect, but he doesn’t deserve to be in the rafters. If heart was the only measurement of getting in than he would be at the top of the list. However, nothing else would warrant it though. He was an outstanding rebounder and defender but he was kind of frustrating in that he missed alot of layups and couldn’t make free throws. Plus, we didn’t get any further than the Elite 8 during his tenure. All that said, if his jersey ended up getting up there then I certainly would not make a stink about it.



  22. tyson
    9:49 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    18–that’s funny because I don’t ever remember him getting arrested, much less convicted for that.



  23. Nojo
    9:54 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    Let’s put Chuck in the rafters and take Richie down….



  24. Kyle
    9:55 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    Instead of using ppg, which is the equivalent of baseball’s batting average, let’s looks at win shares, which is an estimate of the number of wins contributed by a player due to his offense and defense. Over the course of his career Chuck Hayes 18.4 win shares, Keith Bogans 14.9

    http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/chuck-hayes-1.html
    http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/keith-bogans-1.html



  25. Rockfield, KY
    9:57 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    I gotta say, I hate these posts. Not because it’s not great discussion material, but I hate having to say that a guy like Rex or Chuck or Turner shouldn’t be in the rafters. They’re all incredibly significant to our program, maybe moreso than the guys who scored a lot of points. Also, I don’t like the idea of them reading this and thinking the fanbase doesn’t support them. I know I sound like a bi+ch, but it is what it is.



  26. rabble rabble rabble
    9:58 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    you have to leave warm fuzzies out of this. if heart earned you a retired jersey, MKG and Hayes would be 1 and 1a. MKG is a national champion. Hayes never was.



  27. jpizzle
    9:59 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    Chuck Hayes was one of my favorite Wildcats ever. Chuck Hayes is one of, if not the, most beloved players in the modern (post Sutton)era. He has no business having his jersey retired. Bogans is (outside of KSR)one of the most underappreciated players in the modern era. He absolutely belongs in the rafters.



  28. Scooby
    10:03 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    Hayes has all the intangibles and things but look at everyone else in the rafters…all have statistical accolades to support them except the unforgettables (BTW I don’t think any of those players should have their jersey retired. Maybe a banner to represent the team, but not individual jerseys retired outside of Woods). Keith Bogans has the statistics to get him in the rafters. If you were going to put Chuck in the rafters, I think he needs a final four or title to go along with him but I don’t think someone deserves to be in the rafters for “intangibles”. Just look at Wayne Turner. He is a DEFINITE YES. The kid went to 3 title games, won 2, led UK in the comeback against Duke, top 50 in career points, 4th in assists, 1st in steals…what else do you want? Delk is a definite in as well as Pratt, Tayshaun, and Anthony Davis. No John Wall. Anthony Davis is arguably the most decorated player coming out of college in the past 20 years….and he has a title. Its a no brainer! If Wall won a title, he could have a case, but he didn’t.



  29. Real UK Fan
    10:10 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    Hayes, while a fan favorite while he was here, was not a player who earned even a mention when talking about hanging a jersey. His stats are not reflective of a person deserving such accolades and what did his teams accomplish? Patterson, while a great player also did nothing to distinguish himself as truly great enough to deserve the honor.



  30. mike
    10:10 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    We should have a way to separate good players, great players, and champions so that everyone is happy. How about only the true creme de la creme get their own jerseys in the rafter, beloved players that were very good, but just dont meet the criteria for their own jersey; they get their name and year(s) played on a banner with other players. If you get your own jersey, you don’t get get on the banner. The banner with multiple names is kind of an honorable mention type thing. As for champions (possibly final fours and runners-up as well) If you were on the roster of a championship team, then you should have your name hung below or attached to the banner. I think every championship team should have the roster hung below it.



  31. changeup sauce
    10:20 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    Looks like we’re going from In Out In Out… to Out In Out In for the next couple of days.



  32. girth
    11:01 am June 12, 2013 Permalink

    Chuck is my all time favorite UK player. Rupp was an absolute TEAR FEST on senior night for Chuck. Chuck did it all, guarded the opposing teams best inside player, played with a ridiculous amount of heart, and loved the jersey. He belongs in the rafters more than any player in the last 10 years in my opinion.



  33. Blueneck
    1:07 pm June 12, 2013 Permalink

    If stats are a big factor then Hayes should be IN. Problems is, BTI puts too much on scoring when Chuck was doing it all while Bogans often shot too much. He may not be old enough to remember but Chuck started being a leader about halfway thru his freshman year. Also did not take into account FG% or the fact Chuck was the best defender on all his teams and Bogans was not.



  34. Chuck Hayes
    3:19 pm June 12, 2013 Permalink

    I am very touched by what some of you have said about my time at the University of Kentucky. Those four years are some of the most treasured in my life, and a great deal of the credit for that is due to the BBN. I’m sure I speak for Keith on this issue as well when I say that whether or not our names hang someday in the rafters at Rupp Arena, it means much more for them to hang in the hearts of each of you who sport the Blue and White.

    What’s your favorite color baby?…



  35. One & Done
    4:14 pm June 12, 2013 Permalink

    When I think of the rafters, I think of the impact made to the UK Basketball legacy. I think of Rupp, Macy, Bowie, Caywood, Mashburn, “Sky”Walker, Mr. Wildcat, and others. They all made an impact over time and not just one year. Future jerseys I would like to see include Hayes, Bogans, Miller, Patterson, Anderson, etc. In 20 years, who from this era would we consider to hang in the rafters?



  36. BrianK
    6:31 pm June 12, 2013 Permalink

    I completely agree with #35, to me the rafters should include players, coaches and others who have made an impact on the university!! Numbers are important and should be looked at, BUT numbers are not everything!! Chuck will always be one of my favorites at UK, he truly gave his all and showed his heart every single game!! If only some other players played with the same heart as Chuck, we’d be talking about others in the same way!! If the “Unforgettables” are in the rafters individually, then so should Chuck!! He was every bit as good as they were!!

    Thank You Chuck for all you did for the university, you will always be remembered as a guy who gave it his all every time out!! I cried right along with him during the senior ceremony. You could just see how much he truly loved wearing the blue and white!!



  37. bobolopolis
    6:40 pm June 12, 2013 Permalink

    Hayes was pretty effective at taking away his man’s offensive game and had a very high bball IQ. Also, Hayes and Daniels interior passing to one another was a thing of beauty. There is a reason he’s still in the nba. There is a reason he’s one of the few UK players in the nba to get a triple double.