Kentucky Sports Radio
[Moderated by Matt Jones]
[Moderated by Matt Jones]
Two thoughts on what is an important weekend for UK:
(1) There has been a tremendous amount of uproar over the commitment of Mike Williams and I admit that I just dont understand it. First of all, it has been reported on here for quite some time that Williams had an offer, so getting on the staff at this point because the kid accepted seems to be a little odd. When I announced that he had an offer, barely a peep was heard. The kid accepts and all of a sudden the sky is falling.
But more importantly, I dont see what the long-term downside of our newest British Cat is. Tubby must sign 5 and possibly 6, players in this year’s class. Because there is a strong possibility that he could lose Morris this year, one of those guys HAD to be a center. So lets see, who is Kentucky currently recruiting that is a center? Well there is…..virtually no one. Dele Coker and Phil Jones are the only potential centers that have been mentioned with UK and a case can be made that Williams is better than both of them. Look, Williams has only been playing basketball seriously for three years. During that time, the kid has lost a ton of weight, picked up a set of offensive moves and developed some of the best hands of any big man in the country. As I have said a number of times, if you are going to take a chance on a player, take it on someone who is physically gifted and has the ability to improve…..Williams is that kid.
There is no chance that Kentucky was going to sign 5 or 6 top 4o players this year. That rarely, if ever, happens in recruiting and it wasnt realistic this season. Thus Williams is a likely finishing piece of what can be a very good class. I am certain that UK does not believe that Williams is the centerpiece to future recruiting efforts. But he is a big man, and if they wanted a big man, they had to get one locked up soon. Schools like Pitt, Virginia, UCONN and Georgetown were looking at Williams and as the year went on, you can be certain that others would have joined the fray. Ultimately, Williams commitment will have little effect on the success of this class. This class will be judged on what happens with Patterson, Lucas and Stewart. IF they decide to wear Kentucky blue, then this class is top 5-7. If they dont, then the success of the class is debateable, if not obviously disappointing. Signing Mike Williams changes that calculus not at all.
As I have said a number of times before….when UK signs a recruit that you have never seen or that you know little about, hold off before you cry to the moon. Most UK fans would not know Mike Williams from Dele Coker from Larry Coker, so being upset makes little sense. Hold off on judgment until the class is completed….then the 2007 class can be fully evaluated.
(2) Little is being said about this, but this is a HUGE weekend for UK as Patrick Patterson makes his scheduled visit to Duke. Visits by kids to Durham should worry everyone as Duke has an ability to pull of miracles when they get a kid on campus. The combination of the beautiful school, special student environment, crazy basketball offices (with Coach K thumbprints to get in) and manufactured tradition (emphasizing only the last 20 years….the history that kids can remember) make Duke the type of place that virtually always gets its commitments if they roll into Durham.
I would be shocked if when Pat got back from Duke, he wasnt privately telling people that Duke was his leader. Duke does visits better than any other school, a feature that may be best left for another blog. Duke has structural advantages that no other school has, and Patrick will see those this weekend. In a good tidbit, Pat will be saved from a game at Cameron (a great experience), while he will get a taste of UK’s best fandom in a few weeks. Ultimately however, this will likely be a great visit for Pat. What Kentucky fans have to hope is that he continues his rational behavior and doesnt commit on the spot or soon after. If Pat comes away from his Duke visit, not calling Duke the leader, or feeling that Durham is where he has to be, then I like UK’s chances. Getting Pat on campus for Midnight Madness is huge….this weekend is the last hurdle to that taking place.
Watch here this weekend for UK-Central Michigan coverage and other tidbits. I will be in Lexington at the game and around the town….email me at matt.jones@kentuckysportsradio.com and check in throughout the weekend….
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September 29th, 2006 at 8:04 am
Matt, thats great that you are in Lexington this weekend. Keep us up to date with Gant and Barnes, would love to get another commit this weekend, would stop some of the rediculous behavior about Williams. Daniel
September 29th, 2006 at 8:17 am
Hey Matt, Did I miss something? It seems like you said there were going to be some site changes or something? I did just notice the nice wraslin sponsor banner, but that’s probably been there a while.
September 29th, 2006 at 8:22 am
Good take on Williams…first people complain that we have no commits and now the kid is attacked
He has a great upside, Ireton isn’t too far from me. On Pat, is it possible that the reports that
K told Singler he(Singler) was the number one target for Duke going to keep Pat grounded?
September 29th, 2006 at 8:37 am
I agree with you Matt, on Williams….you can’t coach height….better to take some risk on a 7-Footer than to give it to a guard who will just ride the bench……we are due for at least a double or a triple (home run would be better) with a project 7-Footer….Tubby’s system certainly allows the opportunity for a down low guy to excel….maybe Williams will be the guy
Williams is a good pick up….smart, good citizen, apparently hard working, etc…..and remember, Scott Holsopple is here now….he will, hopefully, help continue the Nazr process on him…to the point, Williams will be a lottery pick one day
Another plus….Jared Carter will be going head to head with him dialy….should aid ech player’s progress……another plus many posters have been making….the perception to PP that he will not be sliding over to the 5 slot….PP can be assured he will be honing his 4 skills while playing in Lexington
September 29th, 2006 at 9:05 am
Gray Temples just summed up my thoughts as well. With PP visiting Duke this weekend, a team notorious for using PF’s at the 5 spot, the timing on UK landing a center, was perfect.
The thing that excites me most about Williams, are the reports about his hands. Mike is said to catch everything thrown his way, and Uk hasn’t seen that ability from the center position since Estill. Another good trait about big guys who can catch, they usually have lots of touch on their shots. I’m very curious to see how williams perfroms during his senior season of HS after losing the weight.
September 29th, 2006 at 9:23 am
Tubby hit a good one … it’s going deep … it might be a home run or just an off the wall double … but a solid hit. It’ll be fun watching this BIG Cat play!!!
September 29th, 2006 at 9:38 am
Matt good summary again.
I think the en masse read Williams schpeels on Scout and Rivals
and when they didnt see our name on his list they figured he was heading to Rutgers
or Georgetown or whatever.
I dont think they really thought that Tubby had done his homework
on Williams. The kid is improving daily. He is conditioning. He will
be a 4-year player. He is a good kid.
He is more skilled (that is, his offense) is much more advanced than Shag.
Shag could just dunk. Mike has nice soft baby hooks and works well on the
low blocks.
AS Gray Temples said also about height. you cant have enough of that.
On Patterson…
I am hopeful you are correct.
September 29th, 2006 at 9:54 am
I just really REALLY don’t think Patterson would commit to Duke this weekend. He’s been way to excited about attending BBM with AJ and Jai.
September 29th, 2006 at 10:06 am
You say we won’t sign 4-5 top 40 players, that’s fine and understandable. But to use that as a reason to sign a guy that’s not in the top 200 is simply an exageration. As of now it looks like we simply replaced Woo with this commitment. Hopefully he turns out better than expected, but it was far too early to offer this kind of kid.
BTW- Does Stewart have his offer yet?
The reason you didn’t hear much flack when Tubby offered is that Tubby rarely gets who he offers. No reason to worry until he actually gets em.
September 29th, 2006 at 10:07 am
Greg,
You reiterate the point that you can’t coach height. Well how well has that served us with Woo and Sahg. Seems like Shag, and I think Woo, were both rated higher than Williams.
September 29th, 2006 at 10:19 am
It wouldn’t surprise me to hear Patterson tell people after the Duke visit that they are his leader mainly because he is telling some people right now that Duke is his leader.
September 29th, 2006 at 10:24 am
Some people if they can’t gripe have nothing to say
September 29th, 2006 at 10:32 am
The timing is excellent. I’ll bet Patrick Patterson knew about Williams’ signing before any of us or anybody at Scout or Rivals did. Now let Mike Krzyzewski cry and tell him he has angelic eyes, he cannot tell him he has signed a center in this class or that he is even recruiting one, because he isn’t.
September 29th, 2006 at 10:47 am
Next time you talk to the Patterson’s ask them what they think about Kentucky basketball’s pathetic 30% graduation rate. IMO In the final analysis Kentucky will finish 4th behind Wake.
September 29th, 2006 at 10:53 am
The Patterson recruitment has been blown out of proportion as much or more than any I can remember. While Patterson going elsewhere would be disappointing, no doubt, this idea that the Kentucky program — or somehow Tubby Smith’s coaching position — can’t take his going elsewhere is horse poo. No one player is bigger than a program like Kentucky, and while I’m not for a second saying I wouldn’t want him here, folks need to chill on the rhetoric.
September 29th, 2006 at 11:12 am
So what does a 30% graduation rate have to do with their son graduating?
September 29th, 2006 at 11:20 am
It doesn’t say anything about their son graduating but it does say a lot about the atmosphere this presumaly academically oriented kid will be in.
September 29th, 2006 at 11:23 am
I understand what you’re saying…but I know you’re not that naive…
September 29th, 2006 at 11:37 am
Or maybe you can ask him about that 3 year Duke Sociology degree.
September 29th, 2006 at 12:34 pm
quote”There is no chance that Kentucky was going to sign 5 or 6 top 4o players this year”
unquote
why is there no chance that UK could sign 5-6 top 40 players this year
UNC did it this year
oh wait you are right there arent 5-6 top 40 players left that
want to go to UK ;(
September 29th, 2006 at 12:45 pm
STAN:
UK has NEVER, EVER, recruited the same number of top-ranked players as UNC.
September 29th, 2006 at 1:21 pm
Our graduation rate is dragged down b/c so many of our players hope to go to the NBA and quit going to
classes spring semester to get ready for the draft. I don’t think it is really indicative of
Tubby’s focus on Academics. Plus early entries and transfers count aagainst that as well….
September 29th, 2006 at 2:15 pm
The numbers on grad. rates are so skewed, it a crime that they even have penalties for teams with “low” graduation rates. The numbers don’t take into account transfers (except to count against you when they leave your school and don’t graduate from there), and they don’t account for those that leave early for NBA. Don’t get me started on grad rates and leaving early. The whole point of college is to get a job after, right? So if these kids can already get a job without 4 years of college, why would they bother? Like I said, though, don’t get me started. There are too many things not taken into account, or taken in only as a negative that grad rates are a complete farce.
September 29th, 2006 at 3:19 pm
Williams is the type of guy you sign to go along with McDonald’s All-American types. Like Pitino did with Mohammed, who came in with Mercer and Turner. If Tubs can sign Patterson and Lucas, then this particular commitment will be looked at differently then it is now.
September 29th, 2006 at 3:34 pm
Well actually the new NCAA formula does take into account transfers in and out (in good standing). But it doesn’t take into account early entrants who don’t complete their degrees in a six year period. And if the issue was one blown spring semester for the draft you would think that could be made up in the next few years. By the way there is an article blaming Tubby Smith (and everyone else but the current coach) for Georgia’s dismal 9% NCAA graduation rate because the number includes kids who started school 96 to 99. Toodles. Did Tubby’s Georgia recruits all go into the NBA?
September 29th, 2006 at 3:40 pm
http://www.ajc.com/uga/content/sports/uga/stories/2006/09/28/0929gagra des.html
September 29th, 2006 at 4:20 pm
That’s right, the kids that started in 96. Tubby left after that year, so even though the 96 crop was his recruits, he would not have seen them past their Freshman year. I think we also know the academic standards of Harrick. That couldn’t have had anything to do with the rate could it? Either way, Patterson will not be influenced by graduation rates.
September 29th, 2006 at 4:40 pm
The 30% isn’t from the new rules though right?
The Spring semester that they miss for preparing for the NBA keeps them from graduating & means a loss of their scholarship b/c they are hiring agents. I guess my point was that if kids feel like they have a shot at the NBA it doesn’t matter if the coach focuses on academics. In a lot of cases the kids are going to go after the million
dollar contracts (which is what I would do). So it isn’t really representative of what the school is doing to
help keep kids on track and also hold them resposible for earning their scholarship….
September 29th, 2006 at 4:42 pm
That being said I think Tubby has made a concerted effort recently to bring in better Student Athletes
. I think he became more focused that way with the group who are seniors this year.
September 29th, 2006 at 4:47 pm
matt, is there anything that you don’t spin in relation to tubby smith ? Just wondering, if he was the zodiac killer, would you defend that. sexual ninja, come out of the closet and acuse me of being a homo, WCN hack. You can’t coach height, blah, blah. you also can’t coach talent, espcially where there is not much there to begin with or that if you aren’t much of a coach anyways. Woo, Shag, Camera, the list goes on and on. Orlando has had a few develop, but really nazr, and jamal were coached under Rick and owe just as much to him as Orlando, espeically nazr.
September 29th, 2006 at 5:40 pm
I love the double standard. Tubby gets bashed for not signing anyone, but any kid who signs is automatically perceived as not good enough…
September 29th, 2006 at 6:06 pm
“WCN hack”… is that a put-down? Wow.
September 29th, 2006 at 6:19 pm
Ashcampboy I guess we can understand now the heart of a Tubby hater..thanks for the insight.
September 29th, 2006 at 6:26 pm
I love lamp.
September 29th, 2006 at 7:41 pm
Did you hear that Matt, Bears! Now your putting the the whole KSR website in jeopardy!
September 29th, 2006 at 10:25 pm
The difference between Williams and Mohammed is Pitino coached Mohammed.
Williams is a 2 Start center. We offered. American offered. According to Scout
no one else offered. So we out-recruited American for his services. This is the
recent pattern for Tubby’s recruiting. He is simply a lazy recruiter.
September 29th, 2006 at 10:25 pm
The difference between Williams and Mohammed is Pitino coached Mohammed.
Williams is a 2 Start center. We offered. American offered. According to Scout
no one else offered. So we out-recruited American for his services. This is the
recent pattern for Tubby’s recruiting. He is simply a lazy recruiter.
September 29th, 2006 at 10:51 pm
For a guy named “Voice of Reason “, you sure are irrational.
How is getting a class of Meeks, Jasper, Stevenson, and Porter lazy?
How is signing a top center in Jared Carter lazy?
How is signing the best class in the country in 2004 lazy?
You should call yourself “Voice of unfounded assumptions based on fantasy”
September 30th, 2006 at 7:42 am
Reading all these comments is rather interesting. So many are offered from positions
of ignorance. Simply stated, we really don’t know about this Williams kid. He was not
on the promotional circuit this summer, so all the so-called gurus opinions, numbers of stars,
etc. have to be weighed with caution. Am I concerned that he will be another stiff? Yes, but
to offer any kind of definitive opinion one way or the other on such a young man is really unfair
to him. We simply don’t know right now and won’t for another year plus until we see him live and give
him some time to develop. As to who was recruiting him, if you look at all the sites out there, you
will find conflicting reports. I suspect this guy was on the radar of lots of teams and they were
going to see how he performed at the start of the season in the absence of getting a look at hime
during all the shoe camps. How ’bout we just wait a little to pass judgement?
September 30th, 2006 at 7:57 am
The LHL, which actually interviewed the kid and his coach, said he had OFFERS from Temple, Pitt, DePaul, and Virginia.
Those offers>>>>American
He’s a good PIECE of the puzzle. Don’t freak out, people.
September 30th, 2006 at 8:35 am
Well, Lex, the class of Meeks, Jasper, Stevenson, and Porter really isn’t that great. Not one Parade AA in the list. Porter was rated maybe in the top 200. Would you like me to list the players Tubby whiffed on the past couple of years? How about the list of just the power forwards to replace Chuck Hayes? We settled for Stevenson when the studs signed somewhere else. Carter is a Ky boy in our backyard. And Carter isn’t a top center. I think it is you who lives in a fantasy world.
September 30th, 2006 at 10:54 am
Voice of Reason
So I take it from your comments that a top 15 class isn’t that great? I’m pretty sure that there were about 335 other Division I schools that would have liked to have had that class.
Also, Carter was not a top center? Granted he wasn’t at the begining of the Senoir year but if you’ll remember we beat our Illinois and North Carolina for his services. I’m pretty sure those two schools know how to recruit. I mean I’d assume you would say UNC had a great class that year, Top Five in the country. Or does that still not meet your definition of great?
September 30th, 2006 at 8:11 pm
Yeah, you think he’d have challenged Tyler Hanborough for the starting role last year? He couldn’t start for us before Morris was eligible. We’re talking about top centers?
Top 15 class of guards when we needed SF and PF. Can’t you see the scattered recruiting? This is sign who we can, not sign what we need. How anyone could defend Tubby’s recruiting is beyond me.
September 30th, 2006 at 10:03 pm
Voice of Unreason = joke
Stevenson is the #1 or #2 shot-blocker in high school history.
You don’t “settle” for a guy with that kind of instinct around the ball.
You’re a rankings or “they suck” kind of guy.
Jodie Meeks shot 87% from the foul line throughout the highest level of
Georgia basketball tournament last year and dropped 30 in a head-to-head matchup
with the acclaimed 5-star going to UNC.
Derek Jasper won an MVP in the Las Vegas Tournament without taking a shot.
He defines PG.
You also fail to mention that Parade AA now includes future class stars on their
rankings.
It’s not only seniors now.
October 1st, 2006 at 8:33 am
Lucas will join Anderson at OSU. Patterson will go to Dook. Hickson to UF. UK will get Barnes. UF will take Wallace. My opinion, true, but an informed opinion, nonetheless.
October 1st, 2006 at 11:34 am
woodstockcat = Tubby cheerleader
You’re love for Tubby has lowered your expectations. This is easy to see.
Look at the list of PFs we whiffed on. You’re telling me we didn’t settle for Stevenson?
Stevenson blocked shots in high school - be he’s not a Parade AA.
Meeks is a good free-throw shooter - but he’s not a Parade AA.
Jasper won an MVP at a tourney - but he’s not a Parade AA.
I hope all these guys do great things but a great class? No.
Parade has always included future class stars - not just seniors. I didn’t need to mention this nor did you. Did you just notice this?
Dr Bob has it right. We’ll again have to settle for players because the studs go elsewhere. You can’t defend this by saying a guy hit 87% of his free throws in his high school tourney.
October 1st, 2006 at 2:35 pm
Woodstock, you don’t have your safe haven of moderators coddling your every whim here. I can understand why you choose to see things positively, but when you’re an a$$ in the process, you’re going to get “it” handed to you every once in a while.
October 1st, 2006 at 2:44 pm
Voice of Reason doesn’t want to see this as a great class, hey that’s fine by me.
How many times did you or have you seen ANY of them in person?
October 1st, 2006 at 2:46 pm
M Vick, I’m fully aware of “where I am”. If some on the other sites can’t follow stated rules when they
voice their opinion and end up banned it’s not my fault.
I’m fully capable of arguing my point “in the open” where all of the good troll DDers run to the free sites.
October 1st, 2006 at 3:30 pm
Wow… all this over a recruit UK needs.
After this year, The only center UK will have is Jared Carter.
Morris will not be here.
He is having surgery to help the infrastructure of his knee.
He has already had one… to help. This is one is to complete the
procedure.
While it is major… it is not an uncommon surgery.
Also, it is something that will help in his conditioning when he gets
here.
He at the center doesnt have to be the AA NBA first round draft pick.
That is why he signed jasper and Meeks.
October 1st, 2006 at 4:21 pm
VOY - some 411 for U
Perry Stevenson was named to the Adidas HS A-A team and is one of only a handful of UK recruits the past 15+ years to be named to the Roundball Classic (ex-Dapper Dan) All-Star game. His HS team won the state title.
Jodie Meeks was named 2nd team HS A-A by EA Sports (as named by Student Sports magazine). His HS team won the state title.
Derrick Jasper was named 4th team HS A-A by Basketball Today.
Michael Porter was named All-State 3 years in California. He is the all-time leading scorer at Modesto Christian HS. His team won the state title (in 2004).
The first 3 are all in the Top 50 or so HS players from 2006 class.
UK signed 3 Top 50 recruits in 2006. 2004. 1998. 1992. UK changed its recruiting “method” in 1989.
October 1st, 2006 at 4:24 pm
VOR - more 411 for your DDD (Dynasty Defender Dumbass) below.
Nazr Mohammed averaged 6.2 pts (shooting 50.5% FG) and 4.6 rebs in 14 mins per game under Pitino.
And 12.0 pts (59.7% FG) and 7.2 rebs in 21 mins per game under Tubby.
Oh. And he made 1st team All-SEC under Tubby. Nowhere close under Pitino.
If ya like Italian sausage, go eat some in Louisville. That’s where you’ll find it.
October 1st, 2006 at 7:37 pm
You can like or dislike Pitino but there is no doubt that Tubby reaped the benefits of Nazr playing for Pitino. And you’ll need to explain this DDD thing - except for the last D which would decribe you.
Had Tubby coached Nazr all three years would he have been All-SEC? Doubtful.
Why do I say doubtful? Who else has Tubby recruited and coached do this?
Had Tubby coached Nazr all three years would he have gone to the NBA early? Doubtful.
Why is it doubtful? Only Rondo has left early and made an NBA roster and he was a stud coming in unlike Nazr.
Had Pitino not had Mercer and Anderson pouring in 35 pts per game he would have had Nazr score more. Your statistics are bogus.
October 2nd, 2006 at 8:20 am
Dividing your posts into two separate attempts spaced three minutes apart doesn’t make you any less
boring or pathetic Tommy Boy (or, #51 and #52). Nice try, Rain Man.
October 2nd, 2006 at 8:48 pm
Imagine if we’d had a similar discussion to this Nazr/Mike Williams conversation a few years ago. Someone
would have said, ‘well, Jamaal Magloire had a very good UK career, so this Sheray Thomas kid will too.’ How well
would have comparison have added up?
Same thing with Nazr and Williams. Maybe Williams will be good, maybe he’ll be a tea-drinking Jared Carter,
but Nazr’s success won’t have the first thing to do with it.
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