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April 27, 2006

Tubby Needs To Be A Man on a Mission, Not a Friendly Neighbor

by Josh @ 9:45 pm. Filed under Blue Blooded Opinions

After LHL’s John Clay submitted ‘his’ article of pure plagerism of a fantastic piece written a few days ago by Larry Vaught, it appears that everyone agrees on at least one thing about the UK basketball program: A change is not only wanted, but it is desperately needed!

I know, I know, the Bluegrass state is going overboard and the fans are wondering just where exactly this program is headed….again; However, this has become not only a local mindset, but also a national state of mind. All of Big Blue Nation saw it, heck the whole nation witnessed it, a frustrated Tubby venting after the loss to UCONN in the 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament that he would not endure another season like this and yes, that changes would be made. It was no secret that UK wasn’t getting a lot of PT(if you’ll have it) on ESPN this past season due to their poor play, but Tubby got enough of the spotlight that that very comment was shown during SportsCenter that night. It was also no secret that UK had fallen this past season and fallen hard by breaking records that no Blue follower desired to witness.

A colleague of mine recently told me he would love to have Tubby as a neighbor, but not as a coach, I can’t say I fully agree with his statement, but I must admit I’m scratching my head over his delaying of all these promises that we heard him say. I’m sure Tubby would be a great neighbor, but somewhere down deep is that coach who won a National Championship with his Comeback Cats, won 26 straight games, and swept the SEC regular season and Tournament. I’m not sure what exactly is ‘wrong’ with the program, but it needs to be fixed. I admire Tubby and his personality, but changes need to be made immediately. Everyone can see this and it’s time to clean house.

Let’s get something straight right now, it’s evident that Tubby Smith is a great man. He obviously is a loyal and honest man, but Tubby it is time to get mean! The ’sweet’ guy never got the girl, the good guy never got the job, and the nice guy is not going to win a National Championship either. Am I saying that Tubby can’t win a National Title? No, I am saying that Tubby is going to have to put his feelings aside and think about what’s best for this program……IF he wants to stay here.

I agree with the saying ‘If it ain’t broke don’t fix it’ , but when its shattered it’s time to pick up the broom and do some house cleaning before things get worse. I don’t care what kind of relationship Tubby has developed with Rigot, Hanson, or even Hobbes, if it needs fixing then get to work. I also don’t care what relationship Tubby has developed with Crawford, Bradley, Thomas, Alleyne, Perry, Morris, etc., if it needs fixing then get to work. If Tubby doesn’t have this in him then maybe it’s time to move on. Tubby said it best himself when Joe Crawford contemplated a transfer last season: No one person is larger than Kentucky Basketball. Nearly everyone agrees changes need to be made and if Tubby is going to stick around then he needs to get his kind of players and coaches around him so this doesn’t happen again. It’s time to lose the friendly neighbor image and get down to buisness. Don’t worry about pleasing everyone, take control and make the proper changes that are appropriate. This program doesn’t need a neighbor, we need a coach who can motivate his team, his assistants, and right now his yawning fanbase.

Tubby, I’d be happy to have you as a neighbor, but I’ve not given up on you as a coach. Neighbor or no neighbor, Tubby it’s time to get ticked because someone has just stolen your lawn mower and taken a leak in your yard.

782 Responses to “Tubby Needs To Be A Man on a Mission, Not a Friendly Neighbor”

  1. B.Smith Says:
    April 27th, 2006 at 10:58 pm

    I think Tubby has already decided to get mean.

    Just not about improving the UK program, but about whats in his best interest

  2. Garry Davidson Says:
    April 28th, 2006 at 9:03 am

    Sorry, Tubby burned his “bridge” with me after last season. The sooner he departs UK the better.

  3. Tom Gray Says:
    April 28th, 2006 at 10:01 am

    Tubby Smith is clearly among the Top 5-10 coaches active in Men’s Div I college basketball today. He ranks 8th among active coaches in career W-L (%) record. He ranks 6th among active coaches in career W-L (%) record in NCAA tournament games. He ranks 5th (all-time) in most W in first 15 years as a head coach. He ranks 4th among active coach in career W per season. He is one of only 6 active coaches to have a career W-L (%) record of 70% or better in all games AND NCAA tournament games - the other 5 are Coach K at Duke, Roy Williams at UNC, Rick Pitino at Louisville, Tom Izzo at Michigan State, and Jim Calhoun at Connecticut.

    In his 9 years at UK, his W-L record is 241-71 (77.2%) overall. His NCAA tournament record is 22-8 (73.3%) at UK. In that timeframe, only 3 schools have more W than UK under Tubby Smith - Duke, Kansas, and Connecticut. In that timeframe, only 3 schools have more NCAA tournament W than UK under Tubby Smith - Duke, Connecticut, and Michigan State. That’s right - UK ranks 4th in both categories under Tubby Smith.

    Tubby’s 3 immediate predecessors at UK were 604-190 (76.1%) from 1973 through 1997 (25 years). They were 47-17 (73.4%) in NCAA tournament games in that timeframe. Tubby Smith has a slightly better overall W-L (%) record and about the same NCAA tournament W-L (%) record as his 3 immediate predecessors at UK.

    Adolph Rupp was 425-110 (79.4%) in his last 20 seasons at UK. But he was 18-16 in NCAA tournament games during those years, making 2 Final Four appearances and winning one NCAA title in those 20 seasons. Both were significantly lower than his first 21 seasons at UK (451-80 for 84.9% and 12-2 in NCAA games, making 4 Final Four appearances and winning 3 NCAA titles).

    UK has won 1926 of 2522 (76.4%) games in its basketball history. Tubby Smith has won 77.2% of his games at UK.

    Kentucky has won 99 of 142 (69.7%) NCAA tournament games in its history. Tubby Smith has won 73.3% of his NCAA games at UK.

    I hear some UK “fans” lamenting the fact that UK has only been to the Elite 8 twice in this decade (2000 through 2006). Only 4 teams have been more often than UK in this decade - Michigan State (4 times), Connecticut, Arizona, and Kansas (3 times apiece). Duke and North Carolina have been to just two Elite 8’s this decade. Florida, twice.

    I hear some UK “fans” longing for a return of Tubby’s most immediate predecessor (Rick Pitino). Tubby is 3-2 versus him in the past 5 seasons. Tubby is 131-38 in the past 5 seasons, while Coach Pitino is 118-48 at the same time. Tubby has defeated both Duke and North Carolina on the court. Coach Pitino has never beaten either team.

    In his great book They Call Me Coach, John Wooden states “No coach can win consistently without talent.” Tubby Smith has 13 consecutive seasons of 20 W or more - only Roy Williams and Lute Olson of Arizona have more. Tubby Smith has made 13 consecutive NCAA tournament appearances - only Olson, Williams, and Bob Huggins of Kansas State have more. Since Tubby Smith has shown a proven ability to win consistently, he surely must be acquiring the necessary talent (recruiting) to do so. His average W-L record at UK is about 27-8. With 100% his own recruits (2003 through 2006), his W-L (%) record is 109-28 (about 80%) in the past 4 seasons.

    I believe that the above makes a strong case that Tubby Smith “measures up” to both his predecessors at UK and his peers in modern Div I Men’s basketball history.

    Best regards, Tom Gray
    UK Wildcat fan since 1966

  4. STAN Says:
    April 28th, 2006 at 12:18 pm

    just goes to show you that UK made tubby not tubby Making uk
    what would orlandos record be if he were still at UG
    and not at UG-LEX( university of georgia at LEXINGTON)

  5. Tom Gray Says:
    April 28th, 2006 at 12:25 pm

    UK made Pitino as well. He won 81% at UK but is only 73% for his career. He’s 71% at Louisville.

  6. Josh Dickson Says:
    April 28th, 2006 at 11:44 pm

    I get the feeling that this was misunderstood. I wasn’t aiming this as a bash on Tubby, I was suggesting what I feel is the obvious: There are some big holes in the basketball program. Tubby can right the ship, but he’s got to make some tough decisions and get the right people in and the wrong people out. IF he is not willing to do that then maybe it is time for a change.

  7. Charlie Creech Says:
    April 29th, 2006 at 8:00 am

    Tom, great stats! The problem is you left out some other important facts about your beloved Tubby Smith and they are: 1 FINAL FOUR IN 9 YEARS, 3, 10 LOSS SEASONS THREE YEARS IN A ROAW, 1ST TIME EVER THAT HAD HAPPENED IN UK’S 100 YEARS OF BASKETBALL, ALSO PITINO TOOK OVER A PROGRAM ON PROBATION TUBBY TOOK OVER A PROGRAM ON TOP, PITINO AND HALL WNE TO AT LEAST 3 FNAL FOURS AND 2 CHAMPIONSHIP GAMES, ALSO FLORIDA AS GONE TO 2 CHAMPIOSBHIP GAMES IN THE LAST 6 YEARS, Tubby has all the stats except he took over a great program and the perception now locally and nationally is that UK is in a free fall. That may or may not be the case but the perception is there. Tubby will have this year to prove what he is made of.
    As for recruiting Tubby SUCKS, he may be a great guy and a great family man but that is not working with recruits. He has a problem and he and his staff can’t seem to find the solutions/. Either way he will get one more year to prove his worth. His problem now is the SEC is getting stronger not weaker. When he had his 3 year run the SEC was very week. You see now that with the other teams within the conference getter better UK is not going 16-0 in the conference.
    In short Tom please give us all the facts not just the %’s You did do a good job, but that is only half the story.

  8. Tom Gray Says:
    April 29th, 2006 at 9:29 am

    Most W in NCAA tournament play (1998-2006).

    Duke 28, Connecticut 25, Mich St 23, UK 22 - only 4 teams with 20+ W.

    Most Elite 8 in NCAA (1998-2006).

    Connecticut 5, Mich St 5, Duke 4, UK 4, Arizona 4 - only 5 teams with 4 or more Elite 8 lately.

    Most W by coaches in NCAA (1998-2006).

    Coach K 28, Calhoun 25, Izzo 23, Tubby and Roy Williams 22 (tied). Note that Roy W had 14 W at Kansas, then 8 W at UNC in this timeframe.

    UK lost 36 games in 1987-88-89 and was not on NCAA probation.

    UK’s 69-30 (69.7%) in 2000-01-02 would rank 4th BEST (all-time) in NCAA history.

  9. Tom Gray Says:
    April 29th, 2006 at 9:34 am

    UK made 4 FF appearances in 33 years (1959-92) winning 1 NCAA title (1978) not too long ago.

    UK made 2 FF appearances and won 1 NCAA title in Adolph Rupp’s final 20 seasons at UK (1952-72).

    UK recruiting surely did SUCK in 1996 and 1997 - neither class ranked in the Top 20. But I don’t see how that is Tubby’s fault - he was at Georgia at the time. He recruited two straight Top 5 classes (1998 and 1999) at UK.

    By gawd, far Tubby and har Pitiner?

    Pitiner is 118-48 the past 5 seasons and 5-3 in NCAA play. Tubby is 131-38 and 10-5 in NCAA play.

  10. Charlie Creech Says:
    April 29th, 2006 at 11:26 am

    Great numbers again. They don’t mean much except for Tubby 1-3 in Regional Final games Tubby 0-8 the last eight years Final Four Appearances. Michigan St, Louisville, Duke, Uconn have all been to the final four in the last 6 years. Most of those schools more than once. Also Tubby’s top 5 recruiting classes have got him notta. A lot of wins that did not mean anything. The 96-97 classes landed Tubby is only championship season. When is the last time a Tubby coached won a big game? He is a good coach and I am sure NC State would love to have him, oh I forgot they have not asked to speak with Tubby. Nobody wants this guy as there coach.

  11. Charlie Creech Says:
    April 29th, 2006 at 12:20 pm

    Also Tom, I don’t care what happened before Tubby. Just like with anything else looking back does nothing for anyone. The coaches before this guy all were close in wins, losses, and winning %’s/ The thing that Tubby lacks is winning anything with players he has recruited. His could have a 90% winning percentage but if he can’t ever get back to the Final Four then what good is he? Again nice guy from what I hear but lazy coach . Also a good way to tell if a program is heading in the right direction is when other schools want your coaches. Nobody wants to hire Tubby’s coaches. They are weak and just not very good. Also the NBA is not banging the door down either. So your loving Tubby is damaged goods right now. Everyone sees UK has very little talent and a coach who knows what to do with what he does have. He has recruited some very bad and overated players. Next year is going be worse than this year. The SEC is a lot better than the three years ago when Tubby was winning all those meaningless games. But look at the last two years and you see why fans are going crazy over the direction of this program. Also Florida seems to be ripe to take the lead in the conference.

  12. Jay Says:
    April 29th, 2006 at 3:02 pm

    I get a little tired of hearing all of the stats and numbers thrown out on a regular basis with this Tubby argument. There is something to be said for wins and loses obviously, that’s what it is all about…but, if you want to argue about whether Tubby truly is a good coach or not, you have to look deeper than wins and loses. I liken it to George W. “rallying” the U.S. after 9/11. A retarded monkey could have rallied the american people after an event like that. Tubby is the coach at UK, THE basketball mecca in college sports. There will be some degree of success just becaause of of the location and tradition. I am a former athlete…I see how poor recruiting is in general. We should not give Tubby too much credit in having bad players…our talent has not been that bad in past years…we have consistently lost to inferior and lower seeded/ranked teams. The thing is that he simply cannot coach or discipine young people. He has had consistent discipline problems…we have lost several good players because of this…he is a poor motivator…look at our players body language on the court…we back down, we have no heart, no pride in who we play for…and it is obvious that our players do not buy into the system…something I cannot blame them for one bit. If I were one of the best point guards in the nation, and my job was to dribble down court and throw it into Sheray Thomas, I would have issues too. I am a lifelong UK fan and graduate. I am probably too big of a fan, and I hate to say this, but if I were a top recruit right now, I would not consider UK… I would notice the unhappiness and playing style. The state of this program is very bad right now…and you cannot intelligently solve this discussion looking at wins and losses and comparisons to other big time programs. This is UK basketball…we should not be content comingh in second or third or fourth to other programs, and should not be “happy” that we competed with UConn in the NCAA tournament. That is sad. Twenty win/ten loss seasons ore ok at Georgia and Tulsa, not here. And by the look of our teams’ effort, attitude and desire to play hard, those seasons will be hard to come by in the future.

  13. Charlie Creech Says:
    April 29th, 2006 at 10:46 pm

    I love the giving up the ball to Thomas, UK is in trouble and it is only going to get worse under Tubby. If you look at the roster for next year UK is in serious trouble. Uk will beat Ole Miss, Miss, ST but will get pounded by Florida,LSU, UT, SC and look out for Georgia next year. Uk will be lucky to finish 3rd in the SEC East next. How can they be better when they loose there best player in Rondo and best scorer in Sparks, They are replacing those guys with talent I guess but unproven talent and guys who are not known to be shooters except for Porter. 22-13 will look good next year.

  14. Tom Gray Says:
    April 30th, 2006 at 4:16 pm

    http://www.dbwoerner.com/basketball/coaches/all_106.html These are the ALL-TIME top coaches in NCAA tournament history (minimum of 20 NCAA games).

    Note #10 (Tubby Smith) among only 10 coaches with 70% or better W-L % in NCAA games.

    Tubby ranks 7th among active coaches in W-L % for all games (career) with a minimum of 10 years as Div I coach. He trails only Roy Williams, Coach K, Bo Ryan, Jim Boeheim, Bob Huggins, and Lute Olson - pretty lofty company.

    Even better, he ranks 2nd (tied with Coach K) in career W (24.3) per season. He trails only Roy Williams in that regard.

    He ranks 5th in most W in first 15 years of coaching ALL-TIME behind Roy Williams, Jim Boeheim, Denny Crum, and Nolan Richardson.

    Also 5th most W in NCAA tournament over the past 15 seasons. Coach K has 41 - Roy Williams 36 - Jim Calhoun 33 - Lute Olson 30 - and Tubby 28.

    Some complain about recruiting. Facts belie their complaints. Tubby has signed 7 McDonalds A-A and 10 Parade A-A (plus 2 JuCo A-A) in 9 years at UK. His classes were rated Top 5 in 1998 and 99; Top 10 in 2000 and 01; Top 15 in 2002; #1 in 2004; and Top 10 to 15 in 2006. That’s 7 of 9 classes (78%) rated Top 15 or higher.

    For comparison, Joe Hall signed 10 of 14 classes (71%) rated Top 15 or higher. Eddie Sutton signed 3 of 4 classes (75%) like that. Rick Pitino signed only 4 of 8 classes (50%) rated Top 15 or better. Tubby has a higher % of recruiting success than all 3 of his immediate predecessors.

    Tubby is 241-71 (77.2%) overall and 22-8 (73.3%) in NCAA games at UK. Both % are higher than his 3 immediate predecessors at UK (25 years from 1973 through 1997) and UK all-time.

    Tom Gray, Wildcat fan since 1966

  15. Tom Gray Says:
    April 30th, 2006 at 4:27 pm

    Tubby has always won 22 games or more and never lost more than 13 games at UK. He averages 27-8 as Wildcat coach.

    In the 25 years prior to Tubby arriving at UK, the Cats failed to win 22 games in 8 of those 25 years. The Cats lost more than 13 games twice and lost 13 twice more. It’s not like it never happened before at UK. It’s not uncommon.

    UK averaged 24 W and 8 L in those 25 years. Tubby has just added 3 W to the average UK season.

  16. Tom Gray Says:
    April 30th, 2006 at 4:31 pm

    Jay, were you unhappy in the 1990’s?

    UK finished 2nd to Kansas in W and W-L % that decade. UK finished 2nd to Duke in NCAA tournament W. UK finished 2nd to both Duke and North Carolina in Final 4 appearances (they had 5 apiece, UK had 4).

    Were you unhappy being 4th in NCAA wins under Pitino? Duke and North Carolina had 24 W in NCAA games during Pitino era at UK. Nolan Richardson of Arkansas had 23 W. UK next with 22 W.

    Were you unhappy finally defeating Duke and North Carolina with Tubby Smith as UK coach after failing to do so EVEN ONCE with Rick Pitino as UK coach?

  17. Charlie Creech Says:
    April 30th, 2006 at 4:32 pm

    Your last deal is wrong. Pitino had a higher winning % at UK than your beloved Tubby. Why don’t you talk about Tubby only going to ONE final four in years to Pitino’s THREE. Or that Pitino had at least 6 players in 8 years drafted in the first round to Tubby’s ONE. Tom Gray you need to but all the facts out there. Not just the ones that make your Boy Tubby look good. What your stats don’t show is that kids are not wanting to play at UK. UK was a very popular place to play when Rick was coaching. Not these days. And on recruiting just because a kid is a Mcdonald’s All American does not mean he will be good college player. So again good stats just a little misguided.

  18. Tom Gray Says:
    April 30th, 2006 at 4:34 pm

    Jay FWIW - UK was last #1 in the 1940’s and 1950’s. But then from 1960 on, every single NCAA champion was an integrated basketball team. UK failed to integrate until 1971 and starte catching up to integration from 1975 on.

  19. Tom Gray Says:
    April 30th, 2006 at 4:38 pm

    Charlie, this is pretty simple math. COLLECTIVELY, UK was 604-190 (76%) under Tubby’s 3 predecessors over a 25 year period. Tubby is 241-71 (77%) over a 9 year period. And 77% is greater than 76% using common mathematical reasoning.

    Tubby had players drafted in 1998 (Nazr), 1999 (Padgett), 2000 (Magloire), 2002 (Prince), and 2003 (Bogans). Rondo figures to be drafted in 2006. Erik Daniels made the NBA in 2004 and Chuck Hayes/Gerald Fitch made it in 2005.

    Were you complaining when Adolph Rupp made only 2 FF (winning 1 NC) in his last 20 seasons at UK?

  20. Anonymous Says:
    April 30th, 2006 at 8:41 pm

    Again Tom you are MISSING the point, Tubby did not recruit those players they palyed for him. All but Prince were recruited by Pitino. And for all those other coaches they all went to more Final Fours than Tubby Smith has. Winning % is nice. But he did not have a better winning % than Pitino. Actually Tubby’s is a lot lower than Pitino if you do the math. Tubby is a good coach. Tubby is not a great coach. Also since you are doing the math for the last 20 years. What is Tubby’s total winning %? You have to count those big time programs like Tulsa and Georgia. Again Tubby is a good coach. He would be a better coach at NC STATE except they don’t want hi. He would be a good NBA coach but they don’t want him either. Daniels., Fitch, Hayes were never drafted, Bogans was a 2nd round pick, Prince was a 1st round pick. Rondo may be Tubby’s second 1st round draft pick. I am not sure why you made the integrated comment? I guess that is a problem for you. As for Tubby I could care less what back ground he comes from or what race. I want a coach who plays up and down basketball and team that plays hard every minute. Tubby’s teams do none of that. His teams can’t shoot, especially free throws, the are terrible at moving the ball on offense and do not play team ball. Most of that lays at the coaches feet. So you would think that Tubby would be able to do like Calhoun, Roy, and coach K and make more than ONE FINAL FOUR with all those wins. I would still like to know the last time Tubby’s UK teams won a big and beat someone they were not suppose to beat. Keep the stats coming 1-3 regional finals. 0-3 against Michigan St the last 3 meetings., 0-2 against NC 0-2 against Kansas. So Tubby needs to do some more work. PLus he does loose a lot of home games. Take care Tom is was good debating you.

  21. Jay Says:
    May 1st, 2006 at 12:12 am

    OK, Tom “Rainman” Gray…I’m not going to get into some endless debate about this stuff. Again, you can spew numbers out all you want…but if you have any type of basketball, or even sports, IQ, and actually watch our teams on the court playing against other D1 competition, this stuff is evident. I do not dislike Tubby…I agreee with the last post, he is a good coach, not a great one, and he is a heck of a good guy. But, he does not have the proper demeanor to be able to keep a program like UK at a superior level over time. I was a huge Tubby supporter in the beginning…heck, I even liked Saul…I would give anything to have players now play with his effort and intensity. But, we are not talking about a Georgia or Tulsa here, this is UK, and if we are going to stat atop the college basketball landscape, then we need something superior to Tubby Smith. How many problems has Tubby had with discipline and transfers? Why has that been a consistent theme with him, along with several others talking about transferring after every season? Are we the only D1 program getting the bad apples? No, other coaches have discipline, and they know how to deal with young people. Talking about my defense of Rondo, whom everyone seems to label as the problem with this year’s team…my comment above…do you really think that Tubby told him during his recruitment that we would slow the ball down and throw it to below average post players all the time? Of course not, that is why Rondo was not happy, Tubby always says that we will speed things up at the beginning of the year and then blames it on the poor shooting. I have a lot of experience in basketball, and that is crap. If you want to speed things up, you do it. Tubby has a lot of excuses, and somehow a “bad seed” player gets labeled every year for the blame. You need to get real Tom…you can hide behind these numbers all you want, but the proof is right there on the court every game…and the rest plays for UNC, Duke, Florida, etc. every game. I’m not trying to be a disgruntled argumentative person, but you don’t have the high ground on being a UK fan…any UK fan wants the program to do good…we may disagree on what is the problem, but I am not an excuse maker or apologist…I am a realist. If you want the program to improve, you can’t feel sorry for the nice guy and keep him around until he feels like leaving…that is what Tubby is doing himself with his assistants right now…and it will cost him. Tubby would have been a good coach in the fifties, but not now at this level. Sorry Tom.

  22. Jay Says:
    May 1st, 2006 at 12:21 am

    Oh yeah, I forgot about that little jab about the integration thing, Tom…I’m not sure what your point is on that…I’m not jabbing at anyone’s political opinion by any means, we are talking b-ball here, but my comment in my first post about George W. should at least indicate I lean a little to the liberal side…I could’t care less what color Tubby is…the only color that concerns me is blue…but obviously, you have some type of chip on your shoulder about this to even bring it up…maybe that is clouding your vision…

  23. Tom Gray Says:
    May 1st, 2006 at 6:31 am

    Tubby developed those players into NBA draft picks. Nazr doubled his output in 1998. Padgett improved greatly under Tubby. Magloire tripled his output under Tubby. Those are FACTS - go to Jon Scott website for the numbers.

    Actually Tubby DOES have a better CAREER W-L % than Pitino. Tubby is 365-133 (73.3%) while Pitino is 470-172 (73.2%).

  24. Tom Gray Says:
    May 1st, 2006 at 6:36 am

    Jay, Tubby has defeated more RANKED teams than his predecessor. Go to Jon Scott website for details.

    Tubby ranks in the Top 5-10 active coaches. He is Top 5 for most W in last 15 years, both overall and in NCAA.

    Tubby has defeated Duke and North Carolina on the court. His predecessor never beat either one. Still hasn’t.

    UK was #1 in the 1940’s and 1950’s but NOT SINCE integration from 1960 on. UCLA, North Carolina, and Duke have dominated since then. UCLA has 11 NC and 16 FF, UNC 3 NC and 16 FF, Duke 3 NC and 14 FF since 1960. UK has 3 NC and 8 FF since then.

  25. Tom Gray Says:
    May 1st, 2006 at 6:42 am

    Tubby is 4-2 versus UNC. (Predecessor was 0-3) 2-2 versus Kansas. (Never lost 150-95 to KU either)

    Did U miss the Dec 2003 win over Mich St at Ford Field in Detroit???

    Tubby holds the only UK win over Duke since 1978.

  26. Tom Gray Says:
    May 1st, 2006 at 7:13 am

    UK is 109-28 (79.56%) under Tubby Smith the past 4 seasons with 100% his own recruits.

    UK was 1480-380 (79.56%) COLLECTIVELY under Coaches Rupp, Hall, Sutton, and Pitino.

    Seems like Tubby has the Cats going well of late.

  27. Charlie Creech Says:
    May 1st, 2006 at 9:22 am

    Again why are missing the fact that Tubby has a loosing record against Michigan St. Also you fail to mention Tubby has only been to ONE FINAL FOUR> ONE Pitino went to THREE while at UK at has taken two schools to the FINAL FOUR> Tubby has not done that. Heck Billy Donovan has been to more Final Fours than Tubby. Those percantage’s are nice but winning % does not make you the big bucks. And when I say win a meanigful game I am talking about the last 8 NCAA Tounramnets that Tubby has not been able to advance to the Final Four with his own recruited players.

  28. Tom Gray Says:
    May 1st, 2006 at 10:36 am

    Here’s what I meant about the HUGE impact of integration in NCAA basketball on UK.

    http://webpages.charter.net/dbwoerner/schools.htm

    Click on 1959 at the link - Kentucky ranked #8 but had Most FF and Most NC won.

    Every NCAA champion from 1960 on was an integrated team. Kentucky did not field an integrated team until 1971.

    Click on 1972 (when Rupp left) - Uk had fallen to #32 and 3rd Most FF with 2nd Most NC won.

    Click 1985 - Joe Hall brought UK back to #25.

    Click 1989 - Eddie Sutton inched UK up to #24.

    Click 1997 - Rick Pitino got UK back to #9 and ALMOST to their 1959 status.

    Click 2006 - Tubby Smith has UK up at #5 (finally).

  29. Tom Gray Says:
    May 1st, 2006 at 10:40 am

    Charlie, Tubby Smith has a winning record versus Billy Donovan. A better career W-L record than Donovan, both overall AND in NCAA tournament games.

    Tubby has been to 4 Elite 8 in 9 years at UK. Only 2 teams have been to 5 - Mich St and UConn. And DUKE and NORTH CAROLINA have only been to 4 Elite 8 in those exact same 9 years. That’s right - Tubby has SECOND HIGHEST Elite 8 total in his years at UK.

    If you wish to follow Pitino, may I suggest he’s right down I-64. 2 NIT in last 5 years. Tubby has twice as many NCAA wins in those 5 years as Pitino (10 for Tubby, 5 for Pitino).

    Tubby is 131-38 in that timeframe, Pitino 118-48.

    But I’m sure Pitino would welcome you as a brand new Cardinal fan!

  30. Charlie Creech Says:
    May 1st, 2006 at 11:53 am

    Your facts are wrong abot Tubby being to the elite eight 8 out of 9 years. Hell UK lost in the second round this year, two years ago as a number one seed they were humilated by UAB. The score was close but UK took them too lightly a coaches problem. So get your facts right about that. And Tubby may have a better record against Billy but the kid is 4-0 the last four games and hads been to 2 Final 4 vs Tubby’s ONE!! Today right or wrong coaches are graded based on how far they go in the NCAA tourney. What is bad for UK fans is that Tubby with this great winning during the regular season and a very week sec before this past year, Tubby can’t seem to find his way to the Final Four. Maybe he should call coach K, Izzo,Donovan, Williams, and even the coach at LSU. So unless Tubby is able to get to the Final four with his own players again right or wroong people will always questions wether he can make there on his own. Like I said good guy decent coach. He is long a lot of singers a one hit wonder. One title one trip to the Final Four. Again I am not a huge Pitino fan but he he 2 times the coach Tubby is Let Tubby take 3 different teams to the final four. Heck I would be happy if Tubby could take Uk back to the Final four. I don’t see that taking place. Since he doesn’t seem to know where the final four is.

  31. Tom Gray Says:
    May 1st, 2006 at 12:10 pm

    Not what I said - read AGAIN please.

    In the past 9 years, Tubby has been to 4 Elite 8.

    In those same 9 years, only Calhoun/UConn and Izzo/Mich St have been to 5 Elite 8.

    Duke and UNC have only been to 4 Elite 8 in those same 9 years.

    No other team or coach has been to more than 3 Elite 8 in those 9 years.

    UAB was co-champion of its conference in 2004 and defeated UK by 1 point.

    Repeating, Tubby has a career winning record vs Billy D and a better career/NCAA W-L record than him, too.

    Tubby has shown himself to be a superior coach to Pitino in the past 5 years. 13 more W, 10 fewer L, twice as many W in NCAA play (10 to 5), and 3 wins out of 5 head-2-head games.

    Tubby ranks 5th best in the last 15 years in most W in NCAA play. That IS how far he went in the tournament.

  32. Tom Gray Says:
    May 1st, 2006 at 12:14 pm

    Jim Calhoun has been a coach for 34 years and is in the HOF.

    He has 2 FF with 2 NC in 34 years. Do the math - that’s 1 in 17.

    Adolph Rupp closed his HOF career with 2 FF and 1 NC in his last 20 seasons.

  33. Tom Gray Says:
    May 1st, 2006 at 12:43 pm

    Conference RPI ratings 2006 back through 1999.

    http://kenpom.com/confrank.php?y=2006 Click on each year.

    SEC #4 in 2006. #5 in 2005. #2 in 2004.

    #1 in 2003. #1 in 2002. #1 in 2001. #1 in 2000.

    And #4 in 1999. Average between #2 and #3 in those 8 seasons.

    Tubby/UK = best record in SEC those 8 seasons. Hmmm.

  34. Charlie Creech Says:
    May 1st, 2006 at 2:46 pm

    UK should always have the best record in a conference that has been down the past 9 years. Yhat is not UK’s fault but it is a fact. Other than this year with LSU and Florida making the final no other SEC had made it the final four since UK in 98. So that right there tells you how down the conference has been. Now that the SEC is getting stronger I see signs as do people across the cuntry the UK may have problems keeping pace with the lazy recruiting and slow stlye of BB that Tubby likes. Again those stats are great but in the end everything boils down to Championships. Tubby got his ONE and more power to him. I don’t feel he has the ability to put together a championship team. At least he has not done it yet. I give him all the credit in the world for the 98 championship. I am not sure Rick would have done it. But since then when you look at Fonal Fours UK has been absent and I do not see the lite at the end of the tunnel. This next years teams will be a joke. He has not fixed any problems except running off the best player he has ever recruited. The guys coming in may be talented but who knows how that translates on the court next year. With Bradley running the team you have a suspect point guard at best

  35. Tom Gray Says:
    May 1st, 2006 at 6:04 pm

    Can’t you read???

    The SEC was THE #1 RATED CONFERENCE (by RPI) in 2000-01-02-03 and always in the Top 5.

    But the SEC was weak in the 1990’s - that’s true!

    Making FF does not describe the strength or weakness of a conference of 12 teams.

    Tubby has 1 NC in 9 years. UK has 7 NC in the 68 years of the NCAA tournament, or 1 every 9.7 years.

    Final Fours do not determine a program’s greatness. If so, you would be a fan of UCLA, North Carolina, or Duke.

  36. Charlie Creech Says:
    May 1st, 2006 at 10:13 pm

    Ok, I am not a big RPI guy so that means nothing to me. The past year alone proved the RPI is not valid. Also the SEC may had a high RPI but they did not fair so well out of conference.. And to say that a conference or coach is not measured on tournament success is foolish. Based on your numbers or facts then Tubby should win the championship this based on those numbers. Tubby has taken UK to one of the longest stretches in the schools 100 year history with out making a final four apperance. He is the ONLY coach in the schools 100 history to have 3 straight 10 loss season. Those facts you left out. Again coaches today are measured on championships not getting close not finishing second. If Tubby would have made it to 2 more final fours in his tenure at Uk people would not be calling for hid head. A good stat for you to pull up Tom points per game under Tubby vs the others, free throw % 3 pt shoots made, assists vs turnovers. We will see what Tubby is made of this coming year. If he does show anymore than this past year year then Tubby will be looking for a new job. he needs to do better than 22-13 next year. And from what I see that he is going to be putting on the court winning 20 games next year will be hard unless Uk plays 40 games.

  37. Tom Gray Says:
    May 1st, 2006 at 11:34 pm

    The RPI is based on how they did OOC - read the link (FAQ) that I posted.

    UK went to FF in 51, then 58 (7 years), next 66 (8 years), and 75 (9 years).

    After 78, then 84 (6 years), and 93 (9 years again).

    It is not uncommon at UK to go 9 years between FF - this is the THIRD time.

    In those 3 straight 10 L seasons, he averaged 23 W. That 23-10 (69.7%) average record would rank 4TH ALL-TIME!

    UK had (8) 10+ L seasons in the 25 years before Tubby became UK coach. EIGHT!!!

    Tubby’s numbers stack up well in all those areas.

    If (A) Tubby can’t coach and (B) Tubby can’t recruit, then (C) how come Tubby averages 27 W per season at UK?

  38. Charlie Creech Says:
    May 2nd, 2006 at 12:13 am

    any coach could have come in and done what Tubby did. The program was in great shape when he took over. His job was to maintain and maybe improve the program. He has somewhat maintained the program but he has definately improved the program. The image of the school is suffering under Tubby. The national perception is that UK is broken that does not come from me. UK itself leads to being able to recruit so if a coach is decent he should be able to win at UK. So inspite of Tubby the school will succeed. No ONE coach is bigger than the school. Pitino found that out.

  39. Tom Gray Says:
    May 2nd, 2006 at 1:28 pm

    Actually not true. UK missed on all its MAJOR recruiting targets in 1996 and 1997. UK had lost 6 players to the NBA draft and two 4 year players but hadn’t replaced them in kind.

    Tubby came in and nailed two Top 5 rated classes in a row.

    Rick Pitino had recommended Ralph Willard as his replacement at UK.

    Somehow I don’t think we would have done anywhere near as well under Ralph Willard.

    UK is #4 in games won AND #4 in NCAA games won the past 9 years. UK is #3 in games won the past 4 years.

  40. Tom Gray Says:
    May 2nd, 2006 at 1:31 pm

    Tubby has landed 7 classes (rated Top 15 or better) in his 9 years at UK.

    Pitino landed 4 such classes out of 8. Sutton, 3 out of 4. Hall, 10 out of 14.

    It’s ridiculous to see how UK could improve over its 1996-97-98 years. UK hadn’t done that well since 1948-49 and 1951.

  41. Charlie Creech Says:
    May 2nd, 2006 at 2:23 pm

    Again we will have to agree to disagree. Tubby was at Tulsa and Georgia not major basketball powers. He had not proven to be any better at the time of his hire than anyone else. That is why a guy like Paul Hewitt would be a great fit for UK. He at least has a bettter track coming in that a guy like Tubby had. He has been to a final four. So when I want someone to replace Tubby that is the guy I would start with. Back to Tubby, he will not smell the Final Four for at least 3-4 years. Just because a class is rated high does not mean that class will be that good. And again the closest Tubby will get to getting back to the final is watching in person. Aslo for his recruiting classes to ranked so highly his kids have not went on to the NBA. Again I am talking about plaayers he recruited. I will give him credit he has had more players taken in the second round of the NBA than Pitino had. Tubby may have a record in the top whatever but there are plenty of coaches that can do what he has done at UK.

  42. Charlie Creech Says:
    May 2nd, 2006 at 2:26 pm

    Also how did Tubby win a title in his first year if the program was not left in good shape. Then that if what you are saying is true then The GREAT TUBBY SMITH should have won more titles and been to more Final Fours than Rick since his classes were ranked higher. That seems to be what you are saying? Tubby should be the best coach in UK history instead of making history of being the only coach in the 100 years to loose 10 games in a season 3 years in a row!!! THE ONLY COACH!!

  43. Tom Gray Says:
    May 2nd, 2006 at 4:17 pm

    Tulsa and Georgia >>> Indiana Southern and Wisconsin-Milwaukee.

    Paul Hewitt does NOT have a better track record. His GT teams have gotten weaker each year.

    He doesn’t even rank in the Top 40 active coaches. His record gets worse each year. 11-17 in 2006.

    Tubby won the title by coaching leftovers to three straight W over 30+ W teams and UK’s only W over Duke since 1978.

    Tubby and Rick have the exact same number of titles - 1 apiece.

    Adolph Rupp is the best coach in UK history, not even close.

    As I said, 23-10 (average) would rank 4th BEST all-time if repeated year after year.

    Tubby has sent 12 players to the NBA (assuming Rondo gets there). 2 from Tulsa, 2 from Georgia, and 8 from UK.

  44. Charlie Creech Says:
    May 2nd, 2006 at 6:25 pm

    You are smoking something my friend. I guarentee Paul Hewitt is more in demand nationaly than Tubby Smith is. Tubby has issure wether you want to admit it or not. He can’t recruit and he can’t win the big game. He will show us again his 22-10 magic this coming season. How many weeks compared to your loving Rick has Tubby been out of the top 25? Way more than the he former boss. Under Tubby UK the past 7 years has lost the glamour it had under Pitino. Teams are not afrais to play UK under Tubby. He plays slow boring basketball. UK will finish no better than 3rd in the SEC east this year maybe 4th depending on Georgia and South Carolina. SO get ready for the next 3 year run of a least 10 losses a year under Team Tubby. Team Turmoil. Team Overated last year. People have short memories and Tubby has not won anything in tw yeas worth talking about. He would have stopped most of the majority of people asking for his joib if he would have taken the team to the final four this year. I think he enjoys going more with Donna than getting his team ready to play there.

  45. Tom Gray Says:
    May 2nd, 2006 at 9:10 pm

    Paul Hewitt ranks lower than #40 among active coaches. He is 173-110 in 9 years as a head coach and is 6-4 in NCAA play. That’s 61% overall and 60% in NCAA games.

    He averages 19-12 per season.

    Tubby is 365-133 in 15 years and 278-12 in NCAA games. That’s 73% overall and 70% in NCAA games.

    He averages 24-9 per season. The only coach who averages MORE THAN 24 W per season is Roy Williams. Tubby and Coach K of Duke are tied for second at 24 W.

    UK had THE #1 W-L (%) RECORD the 3 years before last season.

    Tubby has more W over ranked teams at UK than any other Cat coach but Rupp.

    UK basketball existed before 1989 so I compare him to all previous coaches, not just your loverboy Pitino. Ricky P has been much worse than Tubby the last 5 years.

    Keep ‘em comin - your comments are completely absurd.

  46. Charlie Creech Says:
    May 2nd, 2006 at 9:29 pm

    Tubby has decent stats but nationally anyone would picku a dozeon coaches to lead there team over Tubby slow down Smith. I am guessing Tubbys did not average 27-8 at Tulsa or Georgia. So that would lead me to believe that The program is bigger than Mr. Smith. I would take Paul Hewitt any day of the week over Tubby Smith. I also believe that if Hewitt were at UK he would have as good or better record than Tubs. Also Hewitt plays a more up tempo pressing style of ball. And those stats don’t mean a thing when the perception across the nation is that Uk is down in talent and they are blaming your boy Tubby. Tubby is the most overpaid coach in America. The three year run in which Uk had the best record in BB They did not make the the Final Four. Pretty sorry if you ask me. Why have the best record if that is all you have to show for it. Hell Rick has been to a final four in the past 5 years. That after he took over a team that was terrible at Louisville. He did not get the luxury of taking over a team that had just been to 2 championship games. We know Tubby CAN”T GET TO THE FINAL FOUR WITH PLAYERS HE RECRUITS> AT LEAST IN THE LAST * YEARS HE CAN”T SEEM TO FIND THE FINAL FOUR EXCEPT IN THE BLEACHERS. SO LETS SEE WHAT TUBBY DOES THIS YEAR. MY GUESS IS HE WILL DO NO BETTER THAN LAST YEAR AND HE WILL EITHER RESIGN WITH HIS TALE BETWEEN HIS LEGS OR GET FIRED. UNLESS HE IS WISE AND BEGS NC STATE TO LET HIM BE THERE COACH. OH, I FORGOT THEY HAVE NOT ASKED TO TALK TO TUBBY EITHER. YOU WOULD THINK A CACH WITH ALL THOSE WINS WOULD BE A HOT GUY FOR OTHER PROGRAMS OR HIS ASSISTANTS WOULD BE GETTING JOB OFFER AFTER JOB OFFER. FUNNY THING IS NEITHER I HAPPENNING, SO THEY ARE LIKE ME THOSE STATE DON’T MEAN ANYTHING. YOU NEED TO WIN SOMETHING OTHER THAN THE SEC WITH YOUR OWN PLAYERS FOR PEOPLE TO TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY

  47. Charlie Creech Says:
    May 2nd, 2006 at 9:57 pm

    One thing all you Tubby guys seem to forget is Tubby was nothing before he got to UK. So Uk has made him much more than he has made UK. Your stats shows that Tubby is no better or worse than HALL and PITINO> The big differencie they went to more Final Four than Tubby has and will. Lets see hall was at UK 13 years so Tubby has 4 years to make another final four run. Except he forgot where it was at.

  48. pres Says:
    May 3rd, 2006 at 1:42 pm

    good stuff

  49. Tom Gray Says:
    May 3rd, 2006 at 5:30 pm

    Tubby averaged 21-10 at Tulsa and Georgia. (Pitino averages 23-11 at Boston U, Providence and Louisville - both are 67% W-L records)

    Pitino has been to FF, lost second round and first round NCAA games, and had 2 NIT appearances. He’s right down I-64 so go root for him there.

    Tubby won the first ever NCAA games at Tulsa and the first ever back-2-back 20 W seasons at Georgia.

    He made Sweet 16 in 3 of 4 years from 1994 through 1997 - just like Pitino (3 of 4).

  50. Tom Gray Says:
    May 3rd, 2006 at 8:22 pm

    Scout came out with their Top 100 list today. UK has 3 in their Top 60. Jodie Meeks #45 - Perry Stevenson #48 - Derrick Jasper #60. Rivals’ Top 150 came out last week. Derrick Jasper #38 - Jodie Meeks #39 - Perry Stevenson #63.

    UK also signed 3 of the Top 60 in 2004 (Morris, Crawford, Bradley) and 1998 (Prince, Camara, Allison). That’s 3 of 9 times under Tubby Smith.

    Before that, UK only did that in 1992 (Rhodes, Delk, McCarty, Prickett). Not in 1990-91-93-94-95-96-97. That’s 1 of 8 times for Rick Pitino.

  51. Charlie Creech Says:
    May 3rd, 2006 at 10:12 pm

    Man you are selling my point for Tubby can’t coach. Hell if he has had that many classes better than Rick he should have been to more than ONE FINAL FOUR IN 9 YEARS. Compared to lets say Rick’s 3 in 8 years. Man bad move. You are not convincing anyone of anything except Tuby does less with more. Thanks for that last info. Keep stuff like this coming it is great.

  52. Charlie Creech Says:
    May 3rd, 2006 at 10:29 pm

    Concerning Rick I do like him as a coach. I would not want him back at UK. He choose to leave so he can stay gone. He is a better coach than your friend Tubby. I mean 5 final fours with three different teams. Tubby will never come close to making it to 5 Final Fours. Maybe dreaming he might reach that goal but not at UK. He should have done it at Georgia when he was the only coach to lead them to back to back 20 win seasons. But again Tubby came up short on his way to the final four. I do know Georgia has been to the Final Four but Tubby did not lead them there. So you would think the great recruiter Tubby is that man he should have had at least 3 Championships at UK. But all he has been able to do is win with RicK Pitino’s rejects. Man you left yourself open with the recruiting rankings. :) I love it

  53. Tom Gray Says:
    May 4th, 2006 at 1:56 pm

    Tubby’s UK numbers are comparable to Rick Pitino’s numbers here.

    27 W per season (each). 1 NCAA title (each). 22 NCAA wins (each).

    5 SEC titles for Tubby, just 2 for Pitino (although he deserved another one in 1991).

    Tubby and Pitino rank almost side-by-side in career and UK coaching records.

    I’m glad you agree that Tubby has had more consistent recruiting success than Pitino.

    But he had to play catch up in recruiting. UK had NR classes in 1996 and 1997. Tubby followed them up with Top 5 classes in 1998 and 1999, then Top 10 classes in 2000 and 2001.

    If FF appearances are your thing, go root for RP (just down I-64). Be prepared for some NIT appearances and some early round losses.

  54. Tom Gray Says:
    May 4th, 2006 at 2:56 pm

    UK had 239 W in the 1940’s to rank #1.

    224 W in the 1950’s to rank #4 (despite ZERO W in 1953).

    197 W in the 1960’s to rank #7 (tied).

    223 W in the 1970’s to rank #5 (tied).

    233 W in the 1980’s to rank #7.

    282 W in the 1990’s to rank #2.

    178 W (so far) in the 2000’s to rank #6. That’s correct - 6th most W in the 2K’s.

    Duke #1 at 211 W - Illinois #2 at 189 W - Gonzaga #3 at 188 W - Kansas #4 at 185 W - Connecticut #5 at 181 W - then UK - next comes Florida, Arizona, and Syracuse tied at #7 with 177 W - finally Oklahoma #10 with 176 W.

    It appears (numerically) that UK under Tubby in the 2000’s is within range of typical UK performance in the past 7 decades.

  55. Charlie Creech Says:
    May 4th, 2006 at 4:08 pm

    Tom you missed by point. If the 96-97 classes were so bad then why did Tubby make a Championship his 1st year then a refional final loss to Michigan St. There had to be some talent on hand . Since those 1st 2 years Tubby has been to 2 regional finals in the last 7 years. Which means Tubby is either loosing in the 1st or second round those other 5 years. So that is not that good. As far as measuring coaches today making it to the Final Four is huge today in measuring coaches. Coaches today can’t keep a job just because they have a good win loss %. To compare Tubby to Rick is not fair to Tubby. During the 6 years UK was in the tournament under Rick they went to 3 Final Fours and made the regional finals 2 other times and only made one early exit a loss to Marquette. Tubby does not compare to that tournament success. He may have as many wins as Rick but he 3 more years to work with when it comes to the NCAA tournament. So Tubby is good but not that good. That is why a number of people want a change.

  56. Tom Gray Says:
    May 4th, 2006 at 4:40 pm

    The 96 and 97 classes were NR. I didn’t say they were bad, per se.

    Those classes are a primary reason why UK struggled in 2000 and 01.

    Not much talent in the upper classes due to poor recruiting by Pitino.

    UK has been to 2 Elite 8’s the past 7 years. Only 3 schools have been to more (3 or 4) than that.

    Connecticut, Mich St, and Arizona. Duke? Nope - just 2 Elite 8 like UK. Ditto UNC - just 2.

    Repeating, Tubby has 22 W in NCAA over 9 years at UK. Rick had 22 in 8 years. Comparable.

  57. Tom Gray Says:
    May 4th, 2006 at 4:43 pm

    Most W in NCAA play (2000 through 2006) this decade.

    Duke 20.

    Mich St 17.

    Connecticut 16.

    Illinois, Kansas, Arizona, Illinois 15.

    Florida, Maryland 14.

    UK, North Carolina 13.

    UCLA, Syracuse 11.

    Oklahoma St 10.

    That’s right - UK tied for 6th most W in NCAA tournament play this decade.

  58. Charlie Creech Says:
    May 4th, 2006 at 6:31 pm

    Tom the list of UK having the 6th most wins in the 2000’s is great except for the fact they are the only team on that list that has not made the final four. Again I am sure that is Rick’s fault that Tubby has not made the final with all those great recruiting classes he has brought. Just to prove my point All those other schools on the list have the Final Four except your great Tubby Smth. And I am sure it is not his fault either. I am sure you and he would blame it on Bogans getting hurt or Sparks missing a shot or any number of things.

  59. Tom Gray Says:
    May 4th, 2006 at 7:30 pm

    Regardless, UK has 6th most W (both overall and in NCAA games) in the 2000-06 timeframe. And 5th best W-L (%) record, too.

    If you wanna root for FF coach, how about Steve Fisher at San Diego St? He’s been to 3 FF already.

    Almost every team BUT DUKE (and Kentucky) on that list has been inconsistent in the 2000’s.

  60. Charlie Creech Says:
    May 4th, 2006 at 8:23 pm

    I like your come back. So if I want to root for a team that goes to final fours then I should root for someone else until UK sends Tubby on his way? Tubby is a good coach coaching at a great program. He will go down in UK history as such, but he is not bigger than the University. The school was doing fine before he came and will do fine once he leaves.

  61. Tom Gray Says:
    May 4th, 2006 at 9:41 pm

    If FF are so important to you, go right ahead. Tubby has Top 5 credentials in most every category.

    I prefer CHAMPIONSHIPS. Tubby has the same number (1) as Pitino. He has more CONFERENCE championships (7) in his career than Pitino (5) does.

    Tubby is a great coach in his era. There has only been one TRULY great coach at UK - Adolph Rupp. He’s Top 5 all-time. No other UK coach ranks that high.

  62. Charlie Creech Says:
    May 4th, 2006 at 10:19 pm

    Tubby has been at UK longer than Rick and Rick also had the disadvantage of two years probation. So based on that Rick did all his damage in 6 years and based on that he had a better career at UK than Tubby. Again if Tubby were that great other schools or the NBA would be banging down his door but they are not. He should have left when his was wanted.

  63. Tom Gray Says:
    May 5th, 2006 at 6:45 am

    Regardless RP won 22 NCAA games in 8 years. He would NOT have won NCAA game in 1990 anyway and maybe 1 in 1991.

    UK made Elite 8 in 1977 and won NC in 1978 while on 2 Year NCAA probation from 1976 violations. Not an excuse.

    Tubby has declined NBA interest from the 76ers, Hawks, and Hornets. They would LOVE to have him in the NBA.

    My point (simply) is that Tubby’s UK numbers are comparable to his 3 predecessors over the 25 years prior.

    RP was 150-43 (77.7%) his first 6 years at UK. Eddie Sutton was 75-21 (78.1%) his first 3 years at UK. Except for Pitino in 1996 and 97 compared to Sutton in 1989, they started off very much the same.

  64. Charlie Creech Says:
    May 5th, 2006 at 11:26 am

    I can see your point I really do. I also feel that Tubby is in leading the program down. This coming season has potential to be a sub 500 team. I say that based on the talent left on the team with no legitimate point guard and a terrible shooting team. The recruits coming in may be talented but who knows. The talent on this team is not very good.

  65. Tom Gray Says:
    May 5th, 2006 at 2:11 pm

    Tubby won 75% of his UK games his first 5 years (1998-2002) then 80% the last 4 years (2003-06). That’s up (%), not down.

    Which team (below) would you choose? A or B?

    Team A = 12 scholarship players and 1 walk-on.

    3 seniors, 4 juniors, 2 sophomores, 4 freshmen. (Or 7 upperclassmen, 6 underclassmen)

    1 Top 10 rated.
    3 Top 50 rated.
    1 Top 75 rated.
    2 Top 100 rated.
    1 Top 150 rated.
    2 Top 200 rated.
    2 NR (not 200) - 1 is a walk-on
    And 1 foreign player.

    3 were HS A-A and 4 were Mr. B-ball/POY in HS.

    None ever averaged double figures (ppg) or made All-Conference in college before.

    Only 1 had been a full-time starter for an entire season. Several part-time starters.

    Team B = 12 scholarship players and 1 walk-on.

    4 seniors, 3 juniors, 1 sophomore, 5 freshmen. (Or 7 upperclassmen, 6 underclassmen)

    2 Top 10 rated.
    4 Top 50 rated.
    2 Top 75 rated.
    2 Top 100 rated.
    2 NR (not 200) - 1 is a walk-on
    And 1 foreign player.

    3 were HS A-A and 2 were Mr. B-Ball/POY in HS.

    2 averaged double figures (ppg) but none made All-Conference in college before.

    2 had been full-time starters for an entire season. And 1 was a part-time starter.

    Which would you choose? Pretty even up above.

    Team A is the 1997-98 Kentucky Wildcats. They went 35-4 and won the NCAA title.

    1 Top 10 rated - Wayne Turner
    3 Top 50 rated - Jeff Sheppard, Myron Anthony, Allen Edwards
    1 Top 75 rated - Michael Bradley
    2 Top 100 rated - Nazr Mohammed, Ryan Hogan
    1 Top 150 rated - Scott Padgett
    2 Top 200 rated - Heshimu Evans, Saul Smith
    2 NR (not 200) - Cameron Mills, Steve Masiello
    And 1 foreign - Jamaal Magloire

    Team B will be the 2006-07 Kentucky Wildcats. It remains to be seen what they will do.

    2 Top 10 rated - Randolph Morris, Joe Crawford.
    4 Top 50 rated - Shagari Alleyne, Jodie Meeks, Perry Stevenson, Derrick Jasper
    2 Top 75 rated - Ramel Bradley, Jared Carter
    2 Top 100 rated - Bobby Perry, Sheray Thomas
    2 NR (not 200) - Michael Porter, probable walk-on Trey Frazer
    And 1 foreign - Lukasz Obrzut

    IT’S WAY TOO EARLY TO GIVE UP ON THE 2006-07 TEAM!

  66. gf Says:
    May 16th, 2006 at 11:49 am

    funny stuff. RPI rankings and Florida’s NC this year aside…

    Kentucky is playing in a FOOTBALL conference. Tubby has racked up a lot of wins against schools who are more concerned about what’s going on in spring football than on the basketball court. That’s not to say KY is not a great program, but he SHOULD have great numbers in the SEC. If he was playing in the ACC or Big East, would his numbers be that good? I doubt it.

    Coaches are known for where they are at the end of March. Tubby - with the exceptoin of 1998 when he took pitino’s players to the championship game - is usually at home, watching Calhoun, Krzyzewski, Williams, etc. and twice now, Donovan) play in the final four.

    Throw out all of the numbers you want. Tubby is still not getting it done.

    By the way, I like the comments about Tubby beating UNC & Duke when Pitino hasn’t. I’m not sure about UNC - I konw they played twice when he was at UK - but didn’t Pitino only play once against Duke? (I could be wrong). So, Pitino is 0-1, or at worst 0-2, and Tubby is 1-2. Give Pitino one or two more chances when he was at KY, and I’m guessing he would’ve beaten Duke at least once, too. Especially if you give him the first game Duke & KY played after the 92 game, like Tubby got. Anyone could’ve coached UK to that win.

    And I’m pretty sure Pitino wouldn’t have lost to Kansas by, what, around 30 or something, like Tubby did this year??

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