Kentucky Sports Radio
[Moderated by Matt Jones]
[Moderated by Matt Jones]
A sign?
Here we are a few days after the Memphis NCAA allegations broke and I am completely and totally beaten down by any story or piece of news regarding the case. Call me crazy, but I just don’t care about the Memphis situation. I really don’t. As John Clay said earlier, the supposed violations did not happen at Kentucky so it’s not a Kentucky issue. Because of this theory (and because I wear a W.W.J.C.D. bracelet), I am no longer paying attention to this story whatsoever. Seriously.
But, one thing I think we’ve failed to take a proper look at with the what seems to be a large outbreak of NCAA investigations is if it’s time for the NBA’s one-year rule to finally disappear. I was never a big proponent of making a kid go to college if he felt like he could go make some money professionally (I would have gone to the New York Times straight out of high school if they would have upped the signing bonus), but I think we’ve reached the breaking point of this little David Stern experiment. Sure, it’s great for the NBA. Teams no longer have to gamble on the potential of a guy who is beating up on 1A schools in Georgia with the number one pick. They can just see him get exposed in college for a year before investing millions of dollars in him. But, it’s killing college basketball.
What the NCAA is left with more and more lately are kids who are going to college because they are obligated to do so-and it’s not like they’re still no trying to get paid. They’re just using it as a one-stop audition and not really concerned with what nonpunishable infractions they’ve created. They’re letting the types they strive to keep away from college athletics put a big fat thumb on the NCAA motto of “Play by the Rules” and smudge it out. Basically, it’s turning the NCAA into the AAU mess that it seems to despise so much.
I don’t know if Derrick Rose orchestrated a stand-in for his SAT or if he asked someone to doctor his grades. But, I do know that both would have been a non-issue if there wasn’t a one-year NBA rule. I don’t know if OJ Mayo was collecting money while he was in school. But, I know he wouldn’t be worried about 20k or so if he wasn’t being blocked from his livelihood. Of course, this doesn’t excuse their behavior whatsoever. I just don’t think it’s fair that the only kids who will actually be punished are the rule-abiding student-athletes left in their wake. The ones who aren’t millionaires. You know, the ones who will “go professional in other fields”.
Ok, rant over.
Here is what Andy Katz had to say about it this week.
Debate and discuss below.
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May 31st, 2009 at 4:35 pm
First.
May 31st, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Weren’t there discussions out there the NBA commish might bump it up to 2-years out of high school before entering into the NBA? I thought I read that somewhere a while back on this blog and everyone agreed it would help us with Cal at the helm
May 31st, 2009 at 4:40 pm
Make it like college baseball. If you want to go pro fine but if you go to college out of high school you have to go for at least three years.
May 31st, 2009 at 4:41 pm
no doubt about it, this helps UK…..i just think its going to hurt as a whole.
May 31st, 2009 at 4:45 pm
What 3 said.
May 31st, 2009 at 4:47 pm
no 1 year rule, 1 year rule, 2 year rule, 3 year rule
Doesn’t matter we are back on top and will be for sometime under Calipari
May 31st, 2009 at 4:48 pm
Damn fine post Beisner. I agree 100%… I’m just afraid that Cal (and other coaches) might be letting these AAU people, handlers, etc. run amok.
May 31st, 2009 at 4:52 pm
#7 I agree the AAU handlers, ect run amok but there is nothing Cal or
any college coach can do about it until the player gets to their school.
Parents should take more responsibilty. You don’t see Orton, Hood or did you
see Meeks or Patterson involved in this kind of crap. There parents were
very much involved in their recruiting and made sure they did things right.
Not much any coach can do with who is around these kids before they come to
there school.
May 31st, 2009 at 4:59 pm
The NBA sucks………..
May 31st, 2009 at 5:03 pm
its an old argument, and probably one without a feasible conclusion, but if the players got some compensation for the millions that the universities make off their backs, that would stop a lot of the bs
May 31st, 2009 at 5:04 pm
The one year rule isn’t about NBA players, basketball junkies. It’s about all the daydreamers and wannabees who would otherwise screw up their lives because they think basketball will save them. What it does is tell them that they HAVE to pay attention to academics if they want to play pro - and that’s critical. It’s far more important than the occasional academic scandal, or the problems of the one-in-a-million athlete that can’t make grades.
The NFL gets along quite well with a 2 year rule. So can the NBA. The message sent to inner city kids is all important.
May 31st, 2009 at 5:07 pm
W.W.J.C.D. Does that stand for “What Would John Calipari Do?”
May 31st, 2009 at 5:13 pm
Keep it.
Of course I’m talking straight up with no logic, just because I love seeing the best players play in college basketball, which to me is an infinitely more fun game to watch than the NBA product.
….so I’m adding nothing. Carry on!
May 31st, 2009 at 5:15 pm
I expect the NBA to extend the requirements for admission to the NBA draft similiar to the NFL. This rule adopted by the NBA is not about wanting kids to go to college, but rather the players association wanting to improve job security. Veterans do not want to lose positions due to a young players projected ability, but rather to a proven commodity. Do not be surprised to see the age limit raised to 21 and three years removed from high school.
May 31st, 2009 at 5:15 pm
Keep the one year rule or bump it up to two. Without it, we don’t get John Wall and we probably don’t get DeMarcus Cousins as well. Just look at all the great players that have played in college because of this rule: Kevin Durant, Greg Oden, Michael Beasley, Rose, Eric Gordon. I’m sure I’ve missed a few. The one year rule has invigorated college basketball. You’re always going to have scandal. All the writers who think otherwise are just being foolish.
May 31st, 2009 at 5:16 pm
8. you can’t just punt and say its the parents’ responsibility. We see it all
everywhere - some parents do a good job and some don’t. What make matters worse, a very
high % of the “one and dones” come from environments where the aau and other hangers
on have disproportionate influence. And we know what that means… cutting corners at
school, under the table payments, demands on college programs that we don’t want to
know about, etc…
Only way to stop this madness is to go to the baseball rule. Its been working great
for years because it lets kids do what they want to do… play for pay or go to school.
Now, if we could just get the all powerful college presidents to invite Mr. Stern to
their next board meeting to work out a deal, we can get this fixed and go back to the
college game we all grew up loving.
Last thing we all want is something like what Memphis is going through to happen at UK.
No matter how tough our compliance director is, if a kid takes payments (e.g. Mayo and
Camby), or commits achedemic fraud (e.g. Rose) there’s nothing anyone at the University
can do about it. If JC could not stop it at his last two schools, we have no reason to
believe he can prevent it at Kentucky. Scares the hell out of me actually.
May 31st, 2009 at 5:16 pm
I tell you what would really help. For lawmakers to make laws that
punish players and there handlers if something is found to be against
NCAA rules or find yourself punishable by law. That would make people
think alot more
May 31st, 2009 at 5:17 pm
I tend to agree with Katz, It’s a silly rule. Let them go & if they bust in the NBA to bad.
May 31st, 2009 at 5:17 pm
My vote is to limit taking high schoolers to the lottery, the rest of the first round being a two year rule and after that three years. Keeps NBA execs on taking a huge risk on high schoolers that don’t pan out but still gets the KG, Kobe, Lebron, Rose,…. maybe even Wall type players where they can live their dream of playing pro ball without risking it in college. The NCAA loses the cream of the crop, but doesn’t lose the guys who are borderline NBA talent or borderline 1st rounders.
May 31st, 2009 at 5:23 pm
#19, that sounds like a very good idea.
May 31st, 2009 at 5:35 pm
#19–You might be onto something there. It works great because as we all know, the players “big” money is not in the first contract but the second.
The issue I see is that the lottery is slotted with the exact amount of the contract based on position of the draft. In your scenario, there would be no limits to the amount a player could be paid in the second round (or outside of the lottery position), thus you would have a player being paid higher than the positions ahead of them.
May 31st, 2009 at 5:38 pm
Whats gonna be our record next year:
A) 39-0
B) 30-3
C) 25-7
D) 0-39
My guess is B… ofcourse we also win no. 8
May 31st, 2009 at 5:38 pm
Nice thoughts Thomas.
However, I like the one year rule as long as Coach Cal is OUR coach!
May 31st, 2009 at 5:42 pm
11 You could not be more wrong. The rule isn’t about protecting kids AT ALL. It is about protecting the NBA and making money. Look at the early 2000 drafts and how many high school flops were getting drafted. It had nothing to do with the kids; it had everything to do with NBA GM’s looking everywhere for the next Kobe Bryant or Kevin Garnett. So they drafted the Robert Swifts, Dorrell Wrights and Nbudi Ebis of the world in the search hoping one would pan out into a superstar and wasted millions in the process.
By putting the rule in place the NBA gets to sit back and watch whether or not the kids are worth investing first round money in or not. Don’t kid yourself about whether or not David Stern and Myles Brand give a rats ass about the “intrinsic value of education.” They don’t. They are concerned with a bottom line.
Personally I hope more kids take the Jeremy Tyler route. When I think about my last year of high school and freshman year of college I realize I didn’t learn a thing and being on a campus as a college athlete was a total ego trip. Going to Europe for that kid will give him an education that you can’t buy with tuition. He will either learn humility and how to be a professional or he will be sent packing. Brandon Jennings said that going to Europe was the hardest experience of his life, but I bet he has grown from it.
Let me ask everyone in favor of the rule this: Do you think that talented musicians should be forced to go to college for a year before they join orchestras? Because right now they don’t at all. Is this retarding them?
May 31st, 2009 at 5:43 pm
I think that the NBA should have a committee to approve applications for high schoolers who want to enter into the draft. The James Langs of the world would be turned away. The Kobe Bryants would not.
May 31st, 2009 at 5:44 pm
19, I like it.
May 31st, 2009 at 5:49 pm
I’d like those of you who think the current rule is OK (because Cal is the most
productive and it therefore gives us an edge) to explain to me how we can be
sure we won’t have our 30-3 record and #8 banner stripped in three years because
of a lack of judgement by a member of our “world best” recruiting class.
May 31st, 2009 at 6:00 pm
I’d personally like to see it changed to a two year rule. The NBA could lose a little of its “thug league” reputation if more of the players were encouraged to get an education.
May 31st, 2009 at 6:05 pm
This rule is stupid. You can go and die for your country at 18. But you cant play basketball thats just crazy.
May 31st, 2009 at 6:13 pm
SONS OF A MOTHERLESS GOAT
May 31st, 2009 at 6:14 pm
28 that is an incredibly unfair statement. When you say “Thug Image” you mean black guys with tats and fronts right? Do you think that just going to a year or two of college means guys like that will drop their entire culture just because they took ENG 101? So you want the league to whiten up?
I mean you do know that tons of those guys have gone back and gotten degrees (notably Vince Carter, Shaq)? Hell, so did Iverson.
May 31st, 2009 at 6:16 pm
Anyone know a good website for the WWE event tonight?
May 31st, 2009 at 6:17 pm
May 31st, 2009 at 6:27 pm
The rationle for the rule is not the benefit it gives to the NBA.
May 31st, 2009 at 6:28 pm
27, great point! This is still my fear. I’m as excited as anyone with where things are now but the shame we would all feel if one of our titles or final fours were vacated would be too great. I think there is way too much risk with the one year rule and the universities do not have enough control over the situation. AAU and (as Cal put it) ’summer recruiting’ is, often times, where the problem exists. Keeping these kids are out of high schools just gives them more freedom to make deals with anyone who approaches them. That’s not to say it wouldn’t happen within the high school ranks but truly think of how many ‘one and done’ players there are each year that end up being legitimate lottery picks. The number is smaller than some make it out to be. In other words, I think stuff like this happens but not on the level that everyone OVERREACTS to.
In my opinion, the NBA should rule a mandatory two years for any student athlete. This would give the colleges more time to ensure that things are done the right way. Again, the college has no control over the player until he’s enrolled in their university. This ruling would also be a way help the student athlete mature and prevent the NBA from drafting busts. The downside is that the college game would inevitably lose some big names to Europe. Who cares really? I’m a casual NBA fan. I watch during the playoffs and that’s it. My passion is with college basketball. If my ideas are narrow-sighted, that’s because I’m going to side with the sport that means more to me. I doubt you’ll hear many other Kentucky fans say they care about what happens in the NBA more so than the college game!
Before the John Calipari/John Wall era at UK, how many ‘one and done’ players had played at UK? The answer is ZERO. Think about it. Really.
May 31st, 2009 at 6:35 pm
I think you should be able to go straight to draft listen you can go to war at 18 why in the hell cant you go to the nba
May 31st, 2009 at 6:35 pm
34, yeah…it is….there is absolutely no other reason. What you are talking about is the same old tired line that is being parlayed at everyone by David Stern and Myles Brand. Dude, it is A LIE.
May 31st, 2009 at 7:01 pm
Its the nature of the beast, Cal is considered “SHADY” or “DIRTY” cause he goes after the top guys year in and year out. If you want championships you have to get the best and those are the guys your agents and major shoe companies go after. These guys are kids, most of em dont care, they are only gonna be around a year so they dont have to worry bout playin for a school suffering thru probation. As long as David Stern is running things thats the way its gonna be. These kids will be busy signing multi-million dollar contracts to wear a shoe and playing a game that i can only dream about playing. I only wish i was capable of playing ball for the University of Kentucky
May 31st, 2009 at 7:15 pm
#9 You suck……..
May 31st, 2009 at 8:36 pm
10.I’m always amused by people saying we should pay the players. I’m guessing you’re also ready to pay the swimmers, tennis teams and all the others who don’t bring in a dime of revenue.
May 31st, 2009 at 9:33 pm
How about we just don’t let frosh be eligible for varsity? Maybe have their own squad?
May 31st, 2009 at 9:41 pm
The rule is not stupid. It saves NBA organizations millions each year. How would you feel if you were a manager making the choice on the top pick and you picked some 18 year old who flopped? What if he passed on him and he became a superstar? That guy would be fired. It’s a great rule. They just need better enforcement. These kids should be given options for the money they are going to receive later. Kind of like the insurance policy, but giving some to them. Maybe a certain loan or something like it.
May 31st, 2009 at 9:42 pm
40- The swimmers, soccer players, tennis players already do get paid. They’re allowed to get stipends from the governing body of their sport if they’re on a national team or something. Also allowed to get a payout from one event per year, decided by the amateur governing body. I know people that have made over 60k in a year on top of their scholarships in olympic sports.
May 31st, 2009 at 10:12 pm
What I wonder about is the employer’s right to make sure they accept a qualified candidate.
I think the New York Times reference is apt to a point. The NYT, in a fair market, wouldn’t hire a kid out of high school that was awesome at his high school paper. They would require that he get a college degree, have a certain amount of experience, then hire him at a particular level well below a regular columnist at a low level pay and require him to get experience and work his way up.
The NBA, unfortunately, doesn’t have this type situation. Owners are forced to guess what a high school kid will do with millions of dollars based on what he does in a particular high school. LeBron James is easy. Randy Livingston or Omar Cook is not.
NBA teams deserve a chance to evaluate the talent that they are forced to spend millions of investment dollars upon in a competitive environment that is between high school and the NBA. So do their fans. I support either a 3 year rule similar to the NFL or rookie contracts that are not millions of dollars. People think the millions thrown at rookies is some sort of lottery salary. It isn’t. NBA teams are at an unfair disadvantage with a draft full of High Schoolers.
May 31st, 2009 at 10:20 pm
44- But euro teams will still take the high schoolers. At a straight 3 years system they’ll likely go to europe, it might be hard bringing them back. Which would hurt the NBA.
May 31st, 2009 at 10:45 pm
This is blatant_fool…had to create an alternate ID because of an email problem…
Ditching the one year rule doesn’t do everything necessary to solve some of these problems, but it would certainly help. The Derrick Rose case is certainly one example in which any alleged academic fraud would simply be a non-issue beyond Rose’s reputation.
Even if the NBA is really worried about the intellectual and psychological maturity of potential draft picks, the one year rule is also a financial boon for them — and that had to have motivated the rule to begin with.
It’s the perfect setup — “See what a guy can do against real competition, and then we can draft him young and still make mega amounts of money off of him if he proves himself.” It turns the NCAA into the perfect free proving ground for potential NBA talent and allows the NBA to avoid actually fostering a true Minor/Developmental League a la the MLB.
44. makes a good point:
IMO, the only real answer to this that gives the NBA what it wants and helps the NCAA with issues like the Derrick Rose allegations is to actually turn the Developmental League into a robust minor league system.
May 31st, 2009 at 11:17 pm
Do you think Jeremy Tyler would have left high school a year early to go to Europe if he thought he could go to the NBA after his senior year? That is an example of it not working if so.
Bottom line is the NBA is doing this for them as many have pointed out and I think two years would be good for both them and the NCAA (not that they care about the NCAA).
There are benefits for everyone in the two year situation and kids should know they got to start getting an education now or cheat the system like some of them will inevitably do no matter what happens.
May 31st, 2009 at 11:29 pm
The NBA doesn’t need to set up a minor league system. They already have two
that cost them nothing… the NCAA and the European leagues. If they did set
up a bigger D-League, I think many more of the more talented players would go
to the minors which would hurt the college game.
I would actually like to see the NBA go to a rule similar to the one used by
the NFL. This would give NBA execs three years to evaluate the kids and w/b
popular with the players union. It would also allow college coaches to build
their programs knowing that players are going to be around for more than one
year, which should take some of the pressure off recruiting.
And what is the big concern about HS kids not getting the chance to go straight
to the NBA? The NFL’s minimum age limit has been tested and I think most people
agree that it works well for all parties, including the players. If a kid really
has no business going to college (poor academics / financial
hardship), they can always play in Europe.
June 1st, 2009 at 3:01 am
19….Does that mean that the top high schoolers would go to a playoff team since they would not be allowed in the lottery?
June 1st, 2009 at 6:34 am
I hope you all realize that the baseball rule is a little different. Baseball has a draft for high school kids before they enter college. This allows the player to decide money or education. Baseball also has minor league program for these kids setup and working. The NBA would have to agree to put simalar programs in place. The NCAA would also have to appove this measure. I’m not sure the NBA could afford or would agree to this system. If you sign a kid to multi-million dollar contract and send him to a developmental league who pays. The fans will, but in today’s enconomy and soaring ticket prices how many fans would be able to support this league. If you don’t believe me check out the Yankee’s this year and their attendance. Build a new ballpark and cannot come close to filling it for games.
One other thing I would bring up in this debate is that babeball signs players to a huge bonus. Then pay them a poultry salary until they make the bigs. My guess is AAU handlers and a players entourage will push this kid into a bad decision. If these kids fail in their NBA endevor where will they land. They have no Education and no means of a decent living. This will only support crime in out towns. This is not a great situation for working class population or the kids.
June 1st, 2009 at 8:16 am
29.) We use thay argument for everything I dont think its going to work, but lets try something with that….
These ARE 18 year olds, they ARE adults. Lets hold both parties responsible for accepting money from an improper source when they go to college. A 2-3 year NBA suspension or better yet lets make them pay back 100 dollars for each dollar they accept, that will make them think twice before they do this.
I know what your thinking, well then they’ll just go to Europe rather than college, well I say this rule needs to be stiffened anyway. Lets think about this for a second. How much money do you think John Wall, Demarcus Cousins, Daniel Orton, and Eric Bledsoe are goin to make for the University this year? How many of you guys that attended one or two last year are counting down the minutes until you can buy a ticket?? Who wants a Wall jersey???
My point is that we are in some rough economic times as a country, and people are still willing to spend their hard earned money to watch and support these amateur athletes, by promoting them to Europe for a year or two it will eventually lead to the demise of NCAA basketball. Stiffen up the rules here, if a player that has not attended at least 1 year of college signs a professional contract in a country foreign to America, they must wait 4 years before entering the NBA.
JMO
June 1st, 2009 at 9:40 am
Yes. Either let them go pro immediately or use the NFL or baseball guidelines.
One and done is just asking for more Memphis-type situations.
June 1st, 2009 at 1:46 pm
I don’t like the proposition that a school or other entity is responsible for the wrongdoing of others. If a kid cheats, let him be responsible. The deep pocketed kid that went to the NBA would soon learn the cost of cheating. The low end kid would too (in the form of lost scholly, academic fraud on his transcript, etc).
The institution that is complicit or not trying to find out about what is before them could suffer as well. The schools trying to be compliant should not suffer these horrific after the fact penalties that only affect the compliant kids.