Kentucky Sports Radio
[Moderated by Matt Jones, Drew Franklin and Tyler Thompson]
[Moderated by Matt Jones, Drew Franklin and Tyler Thompson]
Nine of the past twenty NCAA men’s basketball titles. The two all-time winningest programs in men’s college basketball. The last undefeated season in men’s basketball. Twenty six total national championships.
The string of accomplishments listed above all belong to a group of six schools. The six schools make up the two most dominant “triangles” in men’s college basketball. North Carolina, Duke and N.C. State make up perhaps the most publicized triangle, all residing within the same state border. Kentucky, Indiana and Louisville make up one of the most heated trios of rivals, with a river and approximately 60 miles separating the schools. Outside of the UCLA run of titles, at various points in time depending on the decade, these six teams have been at the forefront of success in men’s college basketball. In fact, the 1960′s make up the only decade in which one of the six schools did not win at least one title.
Both triangles, though their success is undeniable, have some major differences. If you look at the two side-by-side though, which triangle of schools gets the nod?
The Case For North Carolina/Duke/NC State:
Location, location, location. The unique advantage for this trio of rivals is the fact that all 3 schools reside in the state of North Carolina. For 3 schools with such a rich history of success, to all share the same home state is unmatched.
Conference Ties. North Carolina, NC State and Duke all compete in the same conference, the ACC. The fact that the schools all get to compete with one another head-to-head each season, without a doubt, gives the trio an advantage. Kentucky, Indiana and Louisville do not play each other every season. There have been seasons when they have, but the teams have to agree on a non-conference match up, just once a season. And as we have learned this spring from the Indiana/Kentucky negotiations, the result can leave the schools without the opportunity to play on another at all.
National Attention. The national media has been all over Kentucky, especially in the last three seasons under Calipari. The national media even likes the Louisville/Kentucky rivalry quite a bit– playing up the Pitino/Calipari aspect as much as possible. But the national media loves the North Carolina/Duke rivalry. I would go as far as to say that the most attention given to any rivalry in college basketball is given to UNC/Duke.
Recent Success on the Biggest Stage. Kentucky has held up its end of the deal in the last twenty years, winning 3 national titles (1996, 1998 and 2012), but Indiana and Louisville (especially Indiana) have fallen short of reaching basketball’s ultimate prize recently. North Carolina and Duke on the other hand, have seemingly traded success back and forth throughout much of the 1990s and 2000s. North Carolina and Duke have combined for 7 national championships since 1990.
The Case For Kentucky/Louisville/Indiana:
The Stronger “Weakest Link.” The weakest link in this triangle of teams for the past ten years has been Indiana. The Hoosiers are just now finding their way back onto the scene as potential contenders following a dry spell started by Kelvin Sampson, that was slowly nursed back to life by Tom Crean. Kentucky and Louisville have had down years in the past 10-20 years as well, but in general the three schools have hovered around the Top 25 during most seasons. Notice I barely even mentioned NC State in my argument for the other triangle of schools above. NC State hasn’t been relevant in years. Finally the future is starting to look bright for the Wolfpack with a few strong recruiting classes in a row. NC State made it no further than the Sweet 16 during the Herb Sendek era (1996-2006), and performed even worse under the next head coach–Sidney Lowe (2006-2011). Under Lowe, the Wolfpack failed to reach the NCAA tournament.
In case you were wondering just how bad things were during the Sidney Lowe era, check out the Wikipedia page for NC State…
The Drama. The drama between Kentucky, Indiana and Louisville has reached a level of intensity it hasn’t seen since the Bobby Knight days. Rick Pitino and John Calipari have traded subtle and not so subtle shots back and forth during their time coaching across the state against one another. No matter how you slice it, the back and forth between Roy Williams and Coach K doesn’t hold a candle to that of Calipari and Pitino. Kentucky and Indiana took the debate and negotiations surrounding their attempts to play one another next season directly into the public eye. Neither school was willing to budge entirely in order to meet the requests of the other side. The passion and opinions on where to place the blame for the series ending has many fans on both sides stirred up. Not to mention the fact that Indiana was the only team to beat Kentucky in regular season play last season (Vandy in the SEC tourney), in dramatic fashion on a last second shot. And then, the two teams met again in the Sweet 16, in one of the most entertaining games of the entire tournament. As if all of the on the court drama last season between UK/IU wasn’t enough, Louisville and Kentucky met in the NCAA tournament for the first time since the “Dream Game” this past season as well.
Hansbrough/Plumlee Count: 0
Timing. Duke will be good next season. North Carolina will be good next season. NC State should be good next season. But Louisville, Indiana and Kentucky are being pegged as the top 3 teams in the nation heading into next season. I can’t remember the last time that all 3 schools from either “triangle” were billed to be the 3 best teams in the same season. Although pre-season polls mean very little, the excitement around the state of Kentucky and Indiana heading into next season is at an all-time high. All three sets of fans have reason to feel confident heading into the season.
Total Tites. When it comes right down to the most black and white of comparisons– the numbers– the Kentucky/Indiana/Louisville triangle has more national titles than that of North Carolina/Duke/NC State.
-Kentucky/Indiana/Louisville: 15 titles
-North Carolina/Duke/NC State: 11 titles
Three of the most basketball-obsessed states: Kentucky, Indiana and North Carolina. Six teams. Two different triangles. Which one do you think has the overall edge over time? Which one do you think has the edge right now?
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June 24th, 2012 at 8:11 pm
That can’t be a serious question. One triangle will have next year’s preseason #1,#2,#3…the other one won’t.
June 24th, 2012 at 8:12 pm
Nice post, Ally. I wish KSR would hire you to write all day for this site. You consistently provide interesting, well-thought-out, and well-written articles.
And for those in other blogs on here who say, “it’s summer, so of course we talk about Shaq’s movie career” … this is a perfect example of how to be entertaining during the off-season.
June 24th, 2012 at 8:20 pm
Good post. Quality. As far as a triangle, I feel uk, iu, and ul have the best 1. The two best rivals are unc/duke, but not by much over uk/ul. Just slightly.
June 24th, 2012 at 8:37 pm
Um, Hansbrough won a title in 2009.
June 24th, 2012 at 8:37 pm
I’m fairly certain that Tyler Hansbrough was on the 2009 UNC Championship Team.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/basketball/ncaa/mens-tournament/04/06/uncmsu.game/index.html
June 24th, 2012 at 8:41 pm
Umm, dream game wasn’t final four, that is all..
June 24th, 2012 at 8:50 pm
Let me start off by pointing out that I’m a huge UK fan, and UK alum, but I have to ask: is this a serious question?? (And since some people without common sense will see this as ‘anti-UK’ you can’t go with the “He must be a UL fan trolling UK site, blah blah” b/c UL is on our side in this one) Good Lord, you people are drinking waaay too much of that Blue Kool Aid. How soon you forget that until 3 months ago the UK/UL/IU triangle had a total of 0 titles in the last 13 years, while Dook and UNC had 4. Also, you point out that IU is “back” after last year, where they managed to finish 5th in a mediocre Big Ten (point of comparison, NC St finished 5th in an even more mediocre ACC).
I also find it hilarious that UK fans (myself included) laugh in the face of UL and IU fans whenever all they talk about is how high they’re going to be ranked preseason next year and tell them preseason rankings mean nothing, but apparently here when it helps your argument it’s a great point!
You rip on the Sidney Lowe era, but seem to have forgotten that 2 years ago Indiana was 3-15 in conference and 1-17 the year before that. But wait, now they’re a 5th place team in their conference, so they’re back!! Come on now. It’s amazing that we rip on Indiana and their fans all season long (need I remind you how many times this site posted about their trophy case) but if they can help an argument that says “UK is better than so and so” in anything IU is the next great team on the rise!!
I realize it’s the summer and you guys have to come up with content, but a much better question to pose would have just been to ask which duo was better UK/UL or UNC/Dook (which by the way is still UNC/Dook based on recent history, though hopefully within the next few years that will have changed).
Go Cats
June 24th, 2012 at 8:50 pm
That was actually a joke about us not having any Hansbroughs or Plumlees in our triangle. The placement was a little confusing. I moved it up so it didn’t look like title count for them as well.
June 24th, 2012 at 8:51 pm
UK’s triangle makes sense, but it’s probably been 50 years since Duke or Carolina gave NC State a thought. On the academics side (important issue for prissy Duke and UNC), the in-state rival & scary conference foe in basketball would be Wake.
June 24th, 2012 at 8:54 pm
Hate to say it, but Duke, NC, NC State has the edge
June 24th, 2012 at 8:54 pm
Ok, this topic is a load of horse crap. This whole topic has just been designed to get your 99.9% Kentucky fan readers to get on a rampage saying that “We’re better, how dare they think they have a better triangle” when this topic hasn’t even been brought up. Duke and UNC as much as I hate to say is a better rivalry because both teams are always awesome, UofL does not compare to UK. All you did was add in Indiana and NC State who doesnt compare, just to strengthen a UK/UL vs. DUKE/UNC argument. Post something insightful on here please and not a bunch of crap to cater to your audience who is all UK biased…
June 24th, 2012 at 8:57 pm
That would be a great series and interchange teams each year
June 24th, 2012 at 9:03 pm
TaylorgangorDie go smoke some weed and chill man…..Its a boring Sunday in the wildcat world and it was something to talk about.
June 24th, 2012 at 9:11 pm
Uhhmmm… Do people even refer to IU, UK & UL as a triangle? The Raleigh, Durham, & Chapel Hill area is actually referred to as “The Triangle” which is also the home of research TRIANGLE park. Life long UK fan here, but this is laughable at best.
June 24th, 2012 at 9:14 pm
Oh and write it down, NC State is on the way up. They will compete for an ACC title again.
June 24th, 2012 at 9:24 pm
I dont think this has been reported anywhere, but Anthony Davis is scheduled to appear on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon tomorrow night. http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com/episode-guide/
June 24th, 2012 at 9:49 pm
As of the past 20-25 years the duke triangle has been tons better. But our rivalry with the crummy cards is by far better than dook and north Carolina because they play 2 or 3 times to our 1 or 2 if it happens in the tourney. So that 1 game means more to our fans, the coaches, and the teams period.
June 24th, 2012 at 9:55 pm
Not sure what 11 is talking about. We are biased UK fans and the last time I checked this was a UK site.
June 24th, 2012 at 10:00 pm
Who’s Louisville?
June 24th, 2012 at 10:39 pm
Here come the “I am unbiased and don’t drink the Blue KoolAid” people, picking the best anti-UK arguments they can find. Why don’t you all just move to North Carolina, and make sure you keep your Herald-Leader subscriptions so you can get your daily Jerry (“What has he said that’s wrong???1??”) Tipton dose.
June 24th, 2012 at 11:57 pm
The very next year after the Dream Game, UK defeated UL in the sweet 16 at Rupp. Just sayin’.
June 25th, 2012 at 1:11 am
I agree #13. A boring Sunday…I love this stuff. What else are we gonna argue about? Politics? HA.
June 25th, 2012 at 1:24 am
Just would say the NC triangle has been better. Only because of UL and IU have sucked the last 25 years. They let their coaches stay to long and bring down the programs. Tubby did major damage to ours but Cal has put us back were we belong. Crean has IU back on the up swing. Even RP has UL playing better so the next 10 years could very well have our triangle on top if the other 2 can hold up their end.
June 25th, 2012 at 9:31 am
LMAO! You can’t have a “triangle” when the team 1) are not in the same conference, 2) dont play each other, 3) are not even in the same STATE!.
UNC, Duke, and NC State are all within 20 minutes of each other. The fanbases live, work, and go to church with each other. There is no better rivalry than Duke/UNC.
When was the last time Louisville or Indiana won a national title?
Since 2000, Duke has won 2 and UNC has won 2. Louisville, Kentucky, and Indiana combined? 1.
June 25th, 2012 at 10:13 am
What about the triangle of UCLA, UCONN and Kansas? They have a combined 17 championships!…
Seems legit…
PUUUUUUUHHHHHHLEAZE
June 26th, 2012 at 3:20 am
No doubt in my mind the UK/UL/IU triangle is best. Best programs and best tradition.