Kentucky Sports Radio
[Moderated by Matt Jones, Drew Franklin and Tyler Thompson]
[Moderated by Matt Jones, Drew Franklin and Tyler Thompson]
—> Kentucky football could probably use this.
A lot of the times when we’re talking about what’s wrong with a situation, we tend to listen to anybody with an opinion – even people who have no idea what they’re talking about. And Kentucky football is no exception. Everyone has their own ideas about why the program isn’t competitive in the SEC, including me. But it’s nice to take a step back from that occasionally and take into consideration the ideas of someone who has been around the Kentucky football program at its most basic level.
Josh Jaggers signed to play with UK out of Danville High School and was there for Mumme’s last season before it all went downhill. Jaggers transferred from the program after the Cats were hit with probation, when he said he “wasn’t having fun” there. With probation stripping everything from the program, that’s not hard to imagine.
The guy has been around football his whole life (his grandfather is the legendary Joe Jaggers), and knows his stuff. I sat down with Jaggers for nearly two hours this week and talked to him about a whole host of football topics, including what is wrong with Kentucky football. His view on the matter? The administration isn’t committed enough. We’ve heard that a lot before, but I don’t hear it a lot from guys who were formerly involved with the program. Makes you think there might be something to it, huh?
According to Jaggers, Kentucky football will be a success when the administration considers the sport as important as basketball. We could go around and around on this topic for days – the argument is, “Well, Kentucky basketball has produced.” But it could also be said that the football program hasn’t been given as big of a chance to produce.
“It’s hard to compete in the SEC when you’re working with Mid-American funds,” said Jaggers. “You look at Alabama or Georgia’s recruiting budget, and it’s not that much, but they don’t need that much. They never have to leave the state. Alabama could recruit just out of Tuscaloosa and still be good. When you’re Kentucky, you need to have the best recruiting budget out there.”
When talking about the football program and the funding it receives, basketball will always be brought up in comparison. It’s the nature of Kentucky fans. But the view of Jaggers is that we’ve got to get both sports on a level playing field, or at more level than it is now.
“Calipari can absolutely coach his butt off,” said Jaggers. “But he’s also been given the resources to compete and to win… People say you be great in both sports, but I don’t believe that. It’s like having a Cadillac and wanting a Land Rover. People say you can’t have both… Well, yeah you can, but you might have to sacrifice what kind of house you’re living in.”
He gave Florida and Texas as examples of programs that have competitive football and basketball programs (obviously Texas hasn’t been fantastic the last couple of years, but the program is still solid as a whole, and football speaks for itself).
So what is there to be done? Obviously UK is not (and should not) yank a ton of funding from basketball to give to football. But should football become more of a priority in the future? Yes, in my opinion, and in Jaggers’. When you think about it, did the basketball team really need a new Wildcat Lodge (especially one that’s the size it’s going to be)? Cal got #1 recruiting classes with the old Wildcat Lodge, and he didn’t need a new one. Granted, I don’t think that project was funded all the way by the athletics program, but the concept is still there. Football is not a priority to the administration, whichever way you look at it.
When money starts to funnel into one program, and when that program is made a true PRIORITY to the administration, great things can happen. I believe that.
Jaggers gave the Boyle County situation as an example, and it’s the perfect story to illustrate the points he made. Boyle County was a bottom-feeder in football in the early 90s and before. Then came Chuck Smith. Jaggers said that Boyle County looked like “a high school and four cow pastures” before Smith came along – no football facilities to speak of. Then, Smith and the athletics department decided they were going to have a quality football program. The rest is history. By the late 90s/early 2000s, a dynasty was being built, and five straight state championships were in the making.
(Yes, I am aware that that is a high school program, and the SEC is different. But the overall concept is the point I’m making).
P.S. Chuck Smith is UK’s linebackers coach now, in case you’ve forgotten. We’ve got a guy on the staff who understands the importance of making a program a priority before that program can be truly successful – heck, all the coaches understand this. It’s making the administration understand this that is the problem. They’ve also got to understand that Kentucky basketball probably doesn’t need every penny they’re receiving right now. UK basketball can survive alone; UK football cannot.
Does all of that responsibility fall on Mitch Barnhart? Absolutely not. There is a board of trustees, a university president, boosters and all kinds of other people that are in the mix when it comes to funding, etc for athletic programs.
It will take a huge overhaul to get Kentucky to where it needs to be in football –at a truly competitive level in the SEC. It takes the help of everyone, including fans vying for the program to be a priority.
Certainly something to think about.
Follow me on Twitter @AshleyScoby , and thanks to Coach Jaggers for a great interview.
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June 23rd, 2012 at 3:03 pm
“It’s hard to compete in the SEC when you’re working with Mid-American funds,” said Jaggers. “You look at Alabama or Georgia’s recruiting budget, and it’s not that much, but they don’t need that much. They never have to leave the state. Alabama could recruit just out of Tuscaloosa and still be good. When you’re Kentucky, you need to have the best recruiting budget out there.”
Guess he didn’t know that Bama’s recruiting budget is just over $900,000 one of if not the biggest in the nation.
June 23rd, 2012 at 3:04 pm
Let’s be honest. Only 25% of the state cares about football; 75% cares about basketball. When (if) those priorities change, so will the administration’s mindset.
June 23rd, 2012 at 3:04 pm
Good work Ashley. I could go on and on about why this will never work, but it never hurts to tell the story of what is needed.
June 23rd, 2012 at 3:07 pm
And what can the average day fan do about the information above … We can show up. Nothing hurts our chances of being successful more than fans hitting the eject button on season tickets. UK will never be a winner until we consistently support the program at the most basic level, and that is through selling out every game. I personally think Joker can get us there, but if the fannies don’t stay in the seats, Mitch’s hand is forced.
June 23rd, 2012 at 3:08 pm
Isn’t this the same conversation we’ve been having about UK football for decades now?
June 23rd, 2012 at 3:08 pm
As a 2 time graduate of UK, I will have to say that I disagree with just about everything in this article. We could double our funding for football, but would not improve by 10%, in my opinion. There is simply too little recruiting base in the state and we’re always going to be getting the discards from the other SEC states’ programs.
June 23rd, 2012 at 3:10 pm
I’m not sure Capiluoto is aware that we have a football program. Or an athletics department, except insofar as it may lead to rioting.
There’s an inherent contradiction in trying to improve the football program and holding to the production argument. Refusing to commit resources to improving the program because of a bad past ensures that the program will not improve barring lucky, which by definition isn’t something we can control.
The program needs more money. The problem is not, as others have complained, Barnhart diverting funds to non-revenue sports–a quick check of the data of peer schools and some basic arithmetic disprove that one quite easily (see for yourself: http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/). The problem is a lack of private funding. The athletic department needs to improve its marketing efforts and target potential high-income donors to make some splashes in capital expenditures. It also needs to find ways to improve the woeful culture surrounding the program. We can go places if our fanbase adopts a “win or lose, we’re gonna go to games and support the hell out of the team” mentality.
South Carolina has been as bad or worse historically. But thanks to a great culture in its fanbase and lots of support, they were able to nab Spurrier and are now as good a team as you’ll find in the SEC East. Absent the culture and money it’s unlikely Spurrier goes there. We need to be South Carolina.
June 23rd, 2012 at 3:10 pm
2- Please show me the information that backs those numbers up. TIA.
Ridiculous.
June 23rd, 2012 at 3:15 pm
yeah texas and flordia have done well in both so has ohio state but guess whats all 3 of them schools are there a football school first and a basketball school 2nd. whats basketball got that football dont? it got a tournament were you alot of team get in and you play other teams in other conferences. in football you play mainly you conference. name me a basketball school first thats done great in football??
June 23rd, 2012 at 3:20 pm
Ultimately we all kinda understand that UK football is never going to be a big-time winner or a destination program. So its overall goal should be to be a quirky & fun program. Run a wild offense, aggressive defense, keep improving the “fan experience” (the band, music, sound system, etc). The new scoreboards are nice, but they run so many ads on them that the difference is minimal from what they used to be. And the student section needs to be reduced by about 10,000.
June 23rd, 2012 at 3:24 pm
Ashley – While I appreciate your work and it seems like you did alot of it, Mr. Jaggers is speaking in very, very loose (not realistic) terms here. His Cadillac/Land Rover analogy is extremely tone deaf and simply not applicable in this situation. Let’s say UK basketball is the Caddy and a successful, competitive UK football program is the Land Rover that we also want. It’s not as simple as living in a smaller house (i.e. shifting funds around from basketball). Essentially, UK has a fixed amount of funding and the issue with state bonding is well documented. If we’re using the Caddy/Land Rover analogy, the case is that we have this Caddy and the bank 100% won’t give us a loan to get the Rover even though we have a credit score of 800(in this case, David Williams/the state not allowing bonding even though UK is in the financial position to be able to pay for it). There are structural road blocks currently in place that unfortunately prohibit UK FB from spending the money it wants/needs. We can argue until we’re blue in the face (pun not intended, but intended) about if the administration “cares enough” about football (I think Mitch does). Did bball NEED the Coal Lodge? No, probably not. But it’s not the Coal Lodge that’s keeping Mitch from renovating Commonwealth. I disagree with Matt Jones that UK can never take the next step and be a consistent player in the SEC, but given the current road blocks that I previously mentioned, it’s not happening with the current bonding situation in place. Bottom line, Jaggers is speaking in generalities and his comparison to Boyle County just isn’t comparable (which I know Ashley stated).
Also – before we go praising Chuck Smith: He is the main recruiter for an in-state 4* QB. When UK hosted its camps a few weeks back, said QB was there. The QB made a follow up call a few weeks after camp just to check back in to see how recruiting was looking and Chuck Smith DID NOT REMEMBER that the QB had just been at camp the previous week. That’s just embarrassing on his part, Randy Sanders’ part, and would be unheard of at any other SEC school (including Vandy). In my opinion, Joker should have gotten rid of a fair amount of his assistants (Randy Sanders, Chuck Smith, and Mike Summers specifically) coming into this season to show some change. I wish Joker well and it will be interesting to see how this season plays out. Go Cats.
June 23rd, 2012 at 3:43 pm
Respectfully, the opinion expressed above is coming from someone who was with the program a year then transferred. Not saying the opinion is wrong as it is the same as most everyone familiar with UK football will agree, just saying maybe others are a little more authoritative in their experience.
June 23rd, 2012 at 3:50 pm
#4 you have got to be kidding me. One thing that can be said about UK football, which hasn’t had a winning record in the SEC in over 40 years, is that the support has been incredible. And this has been true for 40+ years. The fans have always shown up, despite miserable, miserable football. And what did UK do with that support? They raised the ticket price, the K-Fund fee, and gave the money to Track, Women’s basketball, softball and soccer.
Please. If fans decide after 40+ years of support to try to get the administration’s attention by not showing up – FOR ONCE, GOD BLESS THEM.
June 23rd, 2012 at 3:53 pm
2. UK Football makes about 75% of the money and basketball makes about 25% of the money (very rough numbers but you get the point)
June 23rd, 2012 at 3:56 pm
Poor Bear Bryant, he would have been successful at UK, if thay had given Rupp’s cadilac to him, instead of a gold watch, wait you say Bryant was successful at UK?, maybe the key is coaching like maybe LSU, Alabama, and Florida have, and KY had for a few years in the 50′s. Since then not so much.
June 23rd, 2012 at 4:00 pm
The problem especially now; with college budgets being massively slashed, where & what is the priority. Football brings in more money than basketball, but basketball is the priority for the majority of UK fans. So what do we do, protect the sport that brings in the most money or support the program that the majority of the BBN want to support. Say what you want, no college has been consistently dominate in football & basketball, there is just too much money, time, or whatever that has to be spent to stay dominate & it is nearly impossible to do it in 2 sports at the same time. We can’t totally blame the Admin for the problem because they are giving the BBN or the majority of the BBN what they want, a great basketball program. The basketball fans out yell the football fans. If the football program has any hopes of getting better, it is ultimately up to the BBN to make it happen, i.e. through their money !!
June 23rd, 2012 at 4:05 pm
To compare us to Texas and Florida is laughable.
June 23rd, 2012 at 4:13 pm
We’ve had this conversation for decades as noted by the commentor above. Basketball is king, football is second. That’s why people expecting the outrageous are out of line. We just have to hope for above mediocrity (9+ wins) every once in awhile. While we should strive to compete every year you cannot expect an SEC championship or a BCS bowl. Moving to a conference with worse football teams will NOT make a difference. Its a priorities issue and the priority is basketball. If you want argue that priority go ahead. But to take away from basketball is to take away from tradition.
June 23rd, 2012 at 4:18 pm
Nothing will change as long as people are flocking to Commonwealth Stadium, paying for mediocrity. Joker wouldn’t be back this season at Alabama, he wouldn’t be back at UK basketball.
June 23rd, 2012 at 4:24 pm
Then chuck Smith came to UK and couldn’t influence Lamar Dawson
June 23rd, 2012 at 4:25 pm
It will take a coach with the personality and ability on the level of a Coach Cal to get the boosters energized. I prefer college football to any other sport and am an avid UK fan. But, seeing the product Joker placed on the field the last couple of seasons has dampened my attachment to UK. I swore that FLA game last season was the last I will attend until a competitive team is put on the field.
As a former football coach, I get disgusted with bonehead plays that happen way too often NOW
June 23rd, 2012 at 4:53 pm
I call that a crappy interview! I have a suggestion. Instead of wasting your time spending two hours on a past player, why don’t you visit the current players and ask them what is “right” with the current program. Why don’t you ask them how hard they are working? For some reason you guys feel it is your responsibility to pound UK football over and over. Why don’t you write a negative story about UK basketball. I’m sure there is one out there, but you wouldn’t have the gonads to do so, because Coach Cal would be all over you!
June 23rd, 2012 at 5:14 pm
Wait a minute, I thought Matt Jones said UK football’s problems were all David Williams’ fault?
June 23rd, 2012 at 5:45 pm
The issue is clearly the majority of UK fans prefer basketball. However, the rest of the nation, and therefore the mega TV dollars, prefer football over anything else. My biggest worry is getting booted out of the SEC into an inferior conference (who pays little money from TV contracts). Why should the SEC be weighted down by a terrible football team when they could trade us for Florida St, Clemson, or some other football first school. In my view, all of the basketball fans need the football team to pull its weight with the fellow SEC football teams to continue getting the shared revenue.
June 23rd, 2012 at 5:52 pm
This article is just a rehash, a broken record. The UK football program has been mediocre to awful for so long, that not too many care any more. That is the truth. We have now returned to the Bill Curry days. Ineptness at its best. That is who Joker is, a fine fellow but not a D1 head football coach. He will never get another D1 head coaching job after he is mercifully canned after the upcoming season. Losing begets losing. Does anybody really care?
June 23rd, 2012 at 5:56 pm
2 your an idiot that is all, good blog finally from someone here about football agree completely keep the fight alive!!!!
June 23rd, 2012 at 5:57 pm
So are you 25
June 23rd, 2012 at 6:15 pm
Oh well. Name one school that’s a juggernaut at both basketball and football.
June 23rd, 2012 at 6:28 pm
27 – You’re a JOKE, just like Kentucky’s football program. That being the case, you must SUCK too.
June 23rd, 2012 at 6:33 pm
Your reply pretty well proves my point thanks.
June 23rd, 2012 at 6:54 pm
We have had some success in recent years getting some players in the NFL and thus some excellent income, perhaps it would help if some were to give back in a substantial manner. The lodge issue was resolved by Joe Craft and his friends of coal, as was the renovation of Memorial facilities, who do we have willing to step up in that manner for football?
With the State in its current flat broke fiscal issues, it will have to come from private, the school cannot afford it, basketball makes its own via TV, gates and private, what does football do?
I for one am not for lowering the standard and funding for one to prop up the other, you’ll end up with a bunch of mediocre programs. Football, it’s alum and it’s fans need to pick themselves up by the bootstraps and lead the charge, or not and accept what we have which is hoping for 6 wins a season.
June 23rd, 2012 at 7:24 pm
When you add what UK spends on football and basketball it is equal to what South Carolina, Georgia, LSU, Tennessee spend on the same…but they outspend UK in football by $7-10M…they give Cal more than twice the recruiting budget as Joker gets…Joker has to sign 5x the number of players…neither coach has much in the way of in state talent…
June 23rd, 2012 at 7:28 pm
As a writer who covers a MAC school, UK spends WAY more than the MAC. The problem is they’re trying to compete with the elite of the SEC. Driving a Caddilac is great. But when all your neighbors drive ferraris it’s hard to compete.
June 23rd, 2012 at 8:11 pm
If KY football could just get to .500 in the SEC and actually outplay the cupcakes on their schedule – the fan response would be amazing. No one really expects the football program to generate the level of success the basketball program does under Cal – but they have every right to expect more than the team has produced the past two years, which have been an outright embarrasment.
Get a coach in here who is creative and has the personality to get the fans and recruits excited and you’ll be taking the first step in the right direction. The more excited the fans are – the more money you will generate which will start to solve all the other problems.
Aiming low w/ a coach like Joker who had NO head coaching experience will put us back where we were in the 90′s w/ the oh so boring and incompetent Bill Curry. Is there really any wonder why people are starting to walk away from the program.
Excitement & Creativity is the first step!!!!
June 23rd, 2012 at 9:27 pm
71 days and counting . . .CAN. NOT. WAIT. . . . UL 35 UK 6. Easy Money….
June 24th, 2012 at 2:04 am
The fans are great, and voted with their pocket books to get Bill Curry fired. With a not very jazzed up home schedule on the way, I fear Mitch might get his hand forced, although if the team can at least play Louisville close, which they can, and win the first couple non conference games, they have a shot to get the fans back. If you like football what else are you going to do on those Saturdays, go to Louisville games? The Cats need to be competitive, and they can still grow this thing.
June 24th, 2012 at 11:57 am
First, Jaggers only experience with administration is CM Newton who didn’t do any investment with the football program. Newton put football so far behind that Mitch has had to pick up the slack to bring footbal up, and he has invested and committed to it. The recruiting budget theory is a joke, because have you ever heard Brooks or Joker complain about not being able to get out and recruit, or don’t have to funds to go out and recruit? Also, comparing the money spent on the new lodge is a mute point. The group of donors who provided for that building only donated to that building. It was either they give for the new lodge or don’t give at all. So, the administration didn’t have a choice to use that money for other things. So people need to stop comparing the lodge in this perspective. If prior administrations at UK would have invested in football then UK football will be different. I think by the time Mitch’s tenure is up, we will be able to say Mitch finally changed the scope on UK Football money and investment wise that will have them on the track to consistant success.
June 24th, 2012 at 1:28 pm
Josh who? Yeah, thought so…
June 24th, 2012 at 3:58 pm
The key words in this article about Boyle Cty is “they hired Chuck Smith”. You get a guy that can coach, i.e. Vandy, and things start to happen. People are not going to pour money in to a team/program as absymal as last years. Heck, fans won’t even buy tickets.
June 24th, 2012 at 4:59 pm
The fact that the interview was with Josh Jaggers is a bit of a joke. Only reason he went to UK is because Nathan Fuqua was drawing double and triple teams every play.
June 24th, 2012 at 8:43 pm
When I first read this, I thought there would be some back lash against Jaggers’ given the fact he transferred from the program (ended up having a very good career at Campbellsville University nonetheless), but the fact that he sounds like he is still a fan of the program and wants it do excell is impressive IMO. I think too much is being read into this when all it really is, is someone who feels the same way many of us do in the fact that football doesn’t seem to be a priority as much as basketball to the higher ups. As a UK true blue fan of both basketball and football, I don’t see a problem with addressing this issue and that’s really all it is.
June 24th, 2012 at 11:58 pm
That may have been a good interview, but we didn’t get much of it. Where was the substance? No details as to what Jagger’s specifically thinks can be done to improve things? Just spend more money? My two year old could have told you that!
This article was written like someone was copying and pasting comments from this site over the last 5 years. No new info and an interview that we got almost none of.